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Photography today , whats wrong with it, my struggles

[Comment on Sig]
[sorry for the sidetrack] I took a look at chapter one. If you are serious about writing this, get yourself into a critique group and get some feedback.

It's reasonably good, not the genre I read but no matter. But it needs polish.

I acquired writing skills through a good critique group and a lot of homework learning the concepts from the critique feedback. [/sidetrack]
 
[sorry for the sidetrack] I took a look at chapter one. If you are serious about writing this, get yourself into a critique group and get some feedback.

It's reasonably good, not the genre I read but no matter. But it needs polish.

I acquired writing skills through a good critique group and a lot of homework learning the concepts from the critique feedback. [/sidetrack]
(replied by PM)
 
That's my problem too. I like taking photos, but I'm not doing anything with them. So... why am I doing it again?

I have sold 3 in a gallery. I don't say this as a money making proposition. Frankly, the prints (metal prints look great by the way) are expensive, there was also commission on the pieces, and the vast amounts of beer I drank on opening night, basically mean I made $0. The reward, I guess, was that I created something that touched someone. I communicated. I think that's 1 reason to "do it".

Photojournalism has a valid function. Any kind of documentary photography arguably has a function. Capturing beauty that you and others can look at and feel pleasure from serves a function I think.

This is all making me think, in a good way :), about why I take pics.

In your sig, you are writing a book. Why? I think its a good thing by the way. But clearly you are driven to create and share. Nothing wrong in that.
 
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Good responses. I appreciate them.
I pulled this off the front page of flikr. It somewhat illustrates my personal dissatisfaction.

It is not terrible or anything, but there's something very cliche-dramatic for me (though certainly there are more extreme examples). And there's a synthetic 'smoothness' to it that I'm just a bit tired of seeing. And the tones and lighting, it is kind of unreal, a characterization of what it probably really looked like.

Not a fan.

What do you all think?

What is that, like 'ten commandments mode'?


Unfortunately other projects have kept me from doing much picture taking. I did break the camera out the other day a took some quick shoots of one of the cats (and yep I ripped off a bunch more than I would have if it was still film). I'll get around to posting some on the pet pic thread.
 
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So after a long absence (back when there wasn't even digital photography) I got back into the hobby. Buying a mid range camera and eventually a few lenses. (I specifically will not reveal brand names or model numbers - more on that below).
I got really heavy into it, then kinda burned out. I'm tentatively trying to get back into it, but with a different mindset.

Here are the things that kind of spoiled the joy (for me)
1. hanging out in photography forums -particularly the gearhead types like dpreview
Way too much my gear is better than yours, or I'm better than you because I am so critical that I buy 5 or 6 copies of the same lens and keep only the best one. or I spend $6k on a 50mm fixed lens because when I shoot wide open and then pixel peep on the corners at 75X magnification I notice that the $5k lens is a tiny bit blurry.

2. post processing with cookie cutter settings that make photos look synthetic and frankly all the same.

3. Cliche shots, there are so many of them and it is just so hard not to find yourself copying other cliche shots, because that's what looks good..I guess?

4. Taking zillions of photos, because you can, because digital doesn't cost you more per shot. So I fall into a trap of not really planning shots, or thinking about shots, or having something creative to say.

5. Looking at zillions of photos, because of the internet you can, and too much of a good thing just exhausts your appetite.

So, I wanna start taking pictures again, and maybe talk about photography, maybe here, without talking about 'gear', or 'buying gear', or 'what gear is better', or 'how do I set up photoshop to make my pictures really 'sell'.

I guess I wanna try more to just focus on the art, or finding a personal vision, or what the point is of taking pics, why do we do it, what for.

Anyone want to discuss?


Excellent questions and thread. Here's my initial take:

- I use an under $250 general purpose digital camera. All the photos I've entered in the photo contest threads (which of course vary in quality) have been taken with those. Due to the progress of digital camera technology, the quality I've been able to get has increased steadily over the years. My most recent camera has one of those 50x optical zooms, which has been a lot of fun (but of course, the photos look like the view through Luke Skywalker's binoculars at anywhere near full zoom).

There's plenty of justification for more expensive gear, but generally, only if you have a particular purpose in mind. If you're just in the woods or on a vacation photographing what interests you, the price of your camera (or even e.g. your available choices of lens) isn't going to make nearly as much difference as your "eye" for what might make a good photograph.

- Cliché shots are hard to get around. Are you going to visit the Taj Mahal, and not take a picture of the Taj Mahal? Or try to find a different angle, a better frame, a close-up, that all the millions of other people who have photographed there have missed? After reviewing roll after roll of pictures (this was back in film days) of mountains that looked so magnificent through the viewfinder but just looked like boring pictures of mountains back home, I eventually learned to concentrate more on photographing the people and activities I was involved with.

- Which brings me to a more peculiar point. My father took a lot of family photographs, which amply demonstrated both the fun and the hassle of doing so. Seeing the prints/slides later was fun, but having to actually stop and pose and wait for photos to be taken was sometimes excruciating. My father is gone, and there's at least eight cubic feet of 35mm slides that nobody wants to spend days and weeks looking through.

Also long ago in the days of film, one of my older sisters lost her photographs of a vacation, and was so despondent over it that it was as if the entire vacation itself had somehow un-happened as a result.

These experiences and others got me wondering about how taking photographs, or even having the intention to take photographs, changes ones conscious experience of events. It's not as simple as photography detracting from or adding to experiences in any general way; it changes their character in more complex ways.

When planning trips and other activities now, I choose whether to take pictures, bring a camera "just in case" but leave it in the car/backpack unless something unexpected or extraordinary happens, or not bring a camera, knowing that this choice will affect how I experience and remember the event. For example, for the coming eclipse, I plan to not try to photograph the eclipse itself (a technical operation that would distract from actually watching the eclipse, and with at best the same results as thousands or millions of other photographers' efforts), but I do want before and after candids of the people I'll be with.

Now that most peoples' main cameras are their smart phones, and are with them at all times, I suspect that's changing people's conscious experience of life in subtle but significant ways.

At the same time, I have a lot of respect and appreciation for people who go out with a camera and try to make art. For a while, I followed various young photographers who were doing "365's" on Flickr (taking and posting a new photograph a day for a year, or at least every few days for 365 photos). It was exciting seeing what they came up with from week to week. My favorite of those was Alex Stoddard. I don't think his entire 365 is still posted, but in the course of it he progressed from a teenage novice with flashes of promise, to an accomplished and creative artist on the verge of a professional career (he's now 23).
 
I have sold 3 in a gallery. I don't say this as a money making proposition. Frankly, the prints (metal prints look great by the way) are expensive, there was also commission on the pieces, and the vast amounts of beer I drank on opening night, basically mean I made $0. The reward, I guess, was that I created something that touched someone. I communicated. I think that's 1 reason to "do it".

Photojournalism has a valid function. Any kind of documentary photography arguably has a function. Capturing beauty that you and others can look at and feel pleasure from serves a function I think.

This is all making me think, in a good way :), about why I take pics.

In your sig, you are writing a book. Why? I think its a good thing by the way. But clearly you are driven to create and share. Nothing wrong in that.
Yeah, true, but I actually intend to publish and make money from my book. I have never intended to sell my photos. And in fact I wouldn't even know how.
 
Yeah, true, but I actually intend to publish and make money from my book. I have never intended to sell my photos. And in fact I wouldn't even know how.
I'm fortunate that I belong to a local gallery that occasionally has 'open' shows where any member can submit and be juried for inclusion.
 
....
These experiences and others got me wondering about how taking photographs, or even having the intention to take photographs, changes ones conscious experience of events. It's not as simple as photography detracting from or adding to experiences in any general way; it changes their character in more complex ways....
Yes you have something there.
If fact, concentrating on taking pictures can sometimes in a way get in the way of you experiencing the thing your are trying to experience. If that makes sense :)
 
Yes you have something there.
If fact, concentrating on taking pictures can sometimes in a way get in the way of you experiencing the thing your are trying to experience. If that makes sense :)
On the other hand, when I started taking photos I started looking for, and noticing, the most amazing things, even when I didn't have a camera in my hand, and when I wasn't intending to. In a way it made me more aware of what was around me.
 
On the other hand, when I started taking photos I started looking for, and noticing, the most amazing things, even when I didn't have a camera in my hand, and when I wasn't intending to. In a way it made me more aware of what was around me.

I believe that is an important point. It may not appeal to everyone, but I think there is an aspect of visual appreciation that is helped by looking at things that way.
 
Yes you have something there.
If fact, concentrating on taking pictures can sometimes in a way get in the way of you experiencing the thing your are trying to experience. If that makes sense :)


On the other hand, when I started taking photos I started looking for, and noticing, the most amazing things, even when I didn't have a camera in my hand, and when I wasn't intending to. In a way it made me more aware of what was around me.


These both make complete sense, and they're both consistent with my own experiences. Accordingly I agree with both of them, which is why I think the effect of photography on experience is more complex than any uniform detracting-from or adding-to.
 
A few ideas:

1. I prefer the lightweight mirrorless dSLRs- they have interchangeable lenses but are small and light enough to pack in baggage and to carry around without being a burden. This way I am more likely to have a camera when I see something I want to photograph. And the picture quality is typically very high.

2. The cliche photo is always a problem. I have a friend who just buys postcards when he visits a typical tourist spot, recognizing that the postcard represents the attraction with the standard image, but with optimum lighting, minimum obstructions and crowds, etc. One could never match this standard shot in one's own photos. But that leaves him free to take his own photos that differ from the cliche ones- e.g. a dark corner of the Lincoln Memorial with interesting shadows instead of the usual full-front cliche photo.

3. Challenge one's self: Tell yourself: I will only take photos of things that are blue. Or that are triangular in shape. Or smaller than an inch. Or allow myself only one photo of each object.

There is a lot to be said for taking only black and white photos (yes the color information will still be there in the file, but ignore it).

4. I find that the subjects that once interested me, such as landscapes, interest me less now. Instead I find (to my surprise) that I like to take macro photos of interesting shapes and textures. Try different stuff.

5. Avoid the temptation of too much "post-production" editing. This remains my sin- the temptation to keep tweaking a photo in Photoshop until "it is perfect." Well of course it becomes less and less real. Plus when does one ever stop? With silver chemistry one could adjust the overall exposure and contrast, plus make some local adjustments by burning in or dodging. I try to limit myself to these options in digital photography as well.
 
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I wish to add- the photos I've seen in the Forum photo contests have blown me away- ISF members are incredibly talented!
 
Seconding Giordano's last point, I think that the ability to post process has been misinterpreted by many as the necessity, and tweaking a photograph has much the same kind of effect as tweaking sound. There's a psychoacoustic phenomenon, in which we always, initially, identify the louder, and sometimes the newer, sound as the better, and many attempts have been made to modify sound by changing balance, frequency, wave shape, etc. Many are temporarily interesting, but often after a while, one realizes that they're tiring, and returning to the "flat" version is a relief.

I recall years ago I knew a person who got some of the surplus gear from a fairly prominent High Fi magazine critic, and who also knew him well. He tested all sorts of stuff, but for his personal use he stuck with a couple of basically very good AR speakers and a big old Dynaco tube amplifier, because they were comfortably musical. One of the things I got from this fellow was a 1960's vintage super-tweaking device. A fancy, expensive, chrome plated tube gadget that interceded between preamp and amp, it had variable settings that changed the sound in ways that were characterized in language a bit like that of vintage wines. It was indeed interesting, and sometimes sounded better for a while, but ultimately it grated. An oscilloscope view showed that it was basically introducing wild distortion in various wavelengths. I get the same feeling sometimes from recent photographic tweaking. It grabs your eye at first, but it's not that nice to live with. Where once we got Ansel Adams and his careful dodge and burn, now we get a crayon set and Thomas Kinkade.

If you look at photo magazines and the like, it seems nearly every picture is oversaturated, the dynamic range over-expanded, over-rigorously manipulated into the rule of thirds and the golden spiral.

I have purposely tried to avoid this, and stayed clear of all but the most elementary post processing tools. Shooting "raw" images allows some basic things to be tweaked, such as exposure, white balance, and color set, but beyond that I find that few things improve a shot if it was good to begin with. There are some exceptions, of course. I have done a lot of traveling, and that includes wildlife on the fly, and for that cropping is almost always a reasonable thing. Even the hot wildlife photographers with monster equipment expect to crop. You just can't always compose a monkey in a tree or a zebra from a moving vehicle as you would like. And likewise, a little change in contrast or sharpening can be handy. But most of the time these are things you notice the need for right away. In my humble opinion rarely is a picture improved after the first minute.

This of course also depends on who is doing the judging. I, like many I think, tend to like things as they first appear to me, because I had an idea when I took the picture. But when I submit a picture to someone else, he sees not what I saw, but the picture alone. He can apply ideas of composition and color and whatnot that make some sense, but that do not mesh with what I saw and wanted when I took the picture. Be skeptical of the judgment of others on your own pictures. Even if they are right in some abstract way, the important thing is whether you get what you intended.
 
A few ideas:

1. I prefer the lightweight mirrorless dSLRs- they have interchangeable lenses but are small and light enough to pack in baggage and to carry around without being a burden. This way I am more likely to have a camera when I see something I want to photograph. And the picture quality is typically very high.

2. The cliche photo is always a problem. I have a friend who just buys postcards when he visits a typical tourist spot, recognizing that the postcard represents the attraction with the standard image, but with optimum lighting, minimum obstructions and crowds, etc. One could never match this standard shot in one's own photos. But that leaves him free to take his own photos that differ from the cliche ones- e.g. a dark corner of the Lincoln Memorial with interesting shadows instead of the usual full-front cliche photo.

3. Challenge one's self: Tell yourself: I will only take photos of things that are blue. Or that are triangular in shape. Or smaller than an inch. Or allow myself only one photo of each object.

There is a lot to be said for taking only black and white photos (yes the color information will still be there in the file, but ignore it).

4. I find that the subjects that once interested me, such as landscapes, interest me less now. Instead I find (to my surprise) that I like to take macro photos of interesting shapes and textures. Try different stuff.

5. Avoid the temptation of too much "post-production" editing. This remains my sin- the temptation to keep tweaking a photo in Photoshop until "it is perfect." Well of course it becomes less and less real. Plus when does one ever stop? With silver chemistry one could adjust the overall exposure and contrast, plus make some local adjustments by burning in or dodging. I try to limit myself to these options in digital photography as well.

I've been pretty happy with fixed lens digital cameras with high-ratio zooms. Image quality isn't quite as good as DSLR's or mirrorless cameras, but it's pretty damn good, and you can go from wide angle to extreme telephoto without changing lenses, so the bird or other critter isn't gone by the time you get the lens changed.

I've done a little bit of manipulation with GIMP, mostly adjusting for exposure errors, or bumping up the contrast for pictures taken in hazy conditions, but mostly I go with what the camera produced.
 
My answer to "what will I do with my pictures" is the same as the answer to "what will I put on my walls". Wall decoration could be a dilemma because there are so many options that picking any one thing out of the lot can make it seem like a statement that that's your favorite of them all, and for me it's just about impossible to even have favorites among so many choices. And viewing my pictures on a computer/tablet isn't the best option for the pictures because of not only screen size but also the fact that I have so many other things to do with the same screen. Having some of my pictures printed on photographic paper from a 2-foot-wide roll at OfficeMax and pinned to my walls is perfect. It not only keeps the walls not-bare and guarantees that my pictures won't go un-looked-at, but also means that what's on my walls is truly my own, not just someone else's idea of a good image that I just went along with and paid them for, which gives them more reason to be there than anything I could buy from someone else. The way it looks is not necessarily what the pros would do, they're a part of my life, not someone else's. And the cost of printing isn't very high, so they're easy to replace if one gets damaged or I decide to switch to a different one.

Incidentally, another little part of that "part of my life" thing is that when I'm in the wilderness, I tend to take at least one of the area around my tent, while standing away from the tent so the tent is in the picture. This, for example, is not just any picture of the gravel bar at Redwood Creek; it's my picture of the gravel bar at Redwood Creek, from my experience there. My favorite pictures are the ones that don't just look the best in some abstract sense, but also anchor my memories of what I was doing at the time, or have a particular story to tell along with them (even if the memory is just something about how I got the shot or the circumstances under which I took it, like having no time to check my settings because the owl was about to go out of the shot).
 
I take hundreds of pictures. I always take my camera with me wherever I go. I guess I'm hoping that one day I'll see something amazing and unique... I'll be so annoyed if I ever do see something like that and don't have my camera.

In the meantime I just keep snapping pics and putting them on my Facebook page. It's a kind of visual journal for me. I don't particularly care what others think of the images, but I get some satisfaction from looking back at my earlier efforts and comparing my recent pics and seeing a bit of an improvement.

More practice leads to a certain instinct for better framing, angles etc. All of which would have been very expensive in the days before digital.

Ignore the gearheads and internet "experts", just keep snapping away. That's my two cents.
 
I just entered a Make/Instructables contest where the prize is a fancy camera. I'd like to get bragging rights as the Grand Prize Winner, but I don't particularly need or want the camera. (It's not even a photo contest).
 

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