PETA and Foie Gras

[redfarmer]

The video wasn't shot by PETA, it was shot by an employee. And I'm aware not all farms necessarily have the same conditions.

As I've already pointed out that was shot at the largest foie gras producer in Canada, which is where around 75% of the foie gras in the USA comes from. If you are eating foie gras in the US, chances are it came from Canada.

That is still completely irrelevant since I have conceded the videos were shot in either Canada or France, and especially since the foie gras farms American animal rights activists, which are a large number of the PETA members and the subject of 95% of this discussion, seek to shut down are not in Canada. And you're still ignoring the question.

One more time: did you read the Village Voice article?

 

[redfarmer]

If california makes it illegal I'm going to laugh my ass off. I doubt they will though as California is truly a foody state. Weed + foie gras = heaven (or california!)

Unfortunately, they've already passed a bill that will make it illegal by 2012.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Unfortunately, they've already passed a bill that will make it illegal by 2012.

Well I guess I won't be eating any next time I'm in San Francisco.

Do the farmers they are putting out of business get any compensation?

 

[Meed]

That's fine but that's all completely irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant. I was replying to someone who said people who oppose foie gras tend to be against meat in general. Many people who oppose foie gras don't oppose meat in general is the point I was making.

You're ignoring the fact that, while conditions may be inhumane at some foie gras farms, it does not follow they are inhuman at all foie gras farms.

I'm not ignoring it at all. I've addressed it multiple times in the thread.

And how many localities it is illegal in and how many people think it should be banned are also completely irrelevant as to whether it is inherently inhumane.

Please pay attention to what I'm actually responding to.

I repeat the question, did you read the article?

No, I haven't yet. If people only want to discuss pro foie gras material I don't think this will be a productive thread. I spent quite a bit of discussion on the Bourdain video and now you're asking me to discuss another pro foie gras source, while the video I posted with an opposing view point has gone ignored.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Apparently they passed the bill in 2004. Interesting. I wonder if a black market will develop and if you'll be able to order it "under the table" at certain eateries.

 

[Meed]

If california makes it illegal I'm going to laugh my ass off. I doubt they will though as California is truly a foody state. Weed + foie gras = heaven (or california!)

It's already been enacted. The sale and production of foie gras in California will be illegal starting in July of 2012.

 

[NewtonTrino]

No, I haven't yet. If people only want to discuss pro foie gras material I don't think this will be a productive thread. I spent quite a bit of discussion on the Bourdain video and now you're asking me to discuss another pro foie gras source, while the video I posted with an opposing view point has gone ignored.

The only pro foie gras material I need is the delicious melt in your mouth fatty flavor. Nomnomnom.

 

[redfarmer]

It's not irrelevant. I was replying to someone who said people who oppose foie gras tend to be against meat in general. Many people who oppose foie gras don't oppose meat in general is the point I was making.

Everything you've said is irrelevant when the question is, "have you read the article", which you have admitted you have not, which means you're rehashing the same arguments over again on a strawman. (Are you actually contending that "many", not most or all, of the people who oppose foie gras oppose meat in general?)

 

[Meed]

That is still completely irrelevant since I have conceded the videos were shot in either Canada or France,

Do you consider Canadian and French foie gras production unethical then? It's hardly irrelevant, because if you buy foie gras in the United States it is most likely to be from Canada as I've pointed out multiple times. Anti foie gras legislation targets the buying and selling of foie gras, not just the production.

 

[redfarmer]

Do you consider Canadian and French foie gras production unethical then? It's hardly irrelevant, because if you buy foie gras in the United States it is most likely to be from Canada as I've pointed out multiple times. Anti foie gras legislation targets the buying and selling of foie gras, not just the production.

It it's produced the way those videos show, then I would say yes. However, that does not mean you punish the four American farms who are producing humanely, especially when one person who posted on this very thread said most of the foie gras he eats comes from Hudson Valley, with the rest of it coming from Sonora Valley, which means that, if you eat the stuff, it's not impossible to eat just the American stuff. That's like saying some black people commit crimes, therefore we should punish all black people.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Do you consider Canadian and French foie gras production unethical then? It's hardly irrelevant, because if you buy foie gras in the United States it is most likely to be from Canada as I've pointed out multiple times. Anti foie gras legislation targets the buying and selling of foie gras, not just the production.

All of the foie gras that I've eaten has the origin clearly marked. Around here it's almost all Hudson Valley which is the place investigated in the article you aren't willing to read.

 

[Meed]

Those who are against foie gras are more likely to oppose eating meat in general.

I oppose factory farming in general so I don't eat meat, but tons of people are against it who aren't against eating meat.
It's illegal in the UK, Italy, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Norway, Poland, Argentina, Israel and soon to be illegal in California.
83% of those polled in San Diego are against it and I highly doubt that 83% are all vegetarians. Meat eating in general isn't illegal in any country.

That's fine but that's all completely irrelevant. You're ignoring the fact that, while conditions may be inhumane at some foie gras farms, it does not follow they
are inhuman at all foie gras farms. And how many localities it is illegal in and how many people think it should be banned are also completely irrelevant as to whether
it is inherently inhumane.

It's not irrelevant. I was replying to someone who said people who oppose foie gras tend to be against meat in general. Many people who oppose foie gras don't oppose
meat in general is the point I was making.

Everything you've said is irrelevant when the question is, "have you read the article"

What I said was irrelevant to that question because it wasn't a response to that question. Jesus... Read the chain of the dialogue.

which you have admitted you have not, which means you're rehashing the same arguments over again on a strawman. (Are you actually contending that "many", not most or all, of the people who oppose foie gras oppose meat in general?)

I don't understand what strawman accusing you're accusing me of making.

I'm contending that many of the people who oppose foie gras do not oppose meat in general.

It it's produced the way those videos show, then I would say yes. However, that does not mean you punish the four American farms who are producing humanely, especially when one person who posted on this very thread said most of the foie gras he eats comes from Hudson Valley, with the rest of it coming from Sonora Valley, which means that, if you eat the stuff, it's not impossible to eat just the American stuff. That's like saying some black people commit crimes, therefore we should punish all black people.

I never said we should punish the four American farms.

 

[RandFan]

If california makes it illegal I'm going to laugh my ass off. I doubt they will though as California is truly a foody state. Weed + foie gras = heaven (or california!)

I wouldn't put it past us. We overwhelmingly passed Prop 2.

 

[Meed]

All of the foie gras that I've eaten has the origin clearly marked. Around here it's almost all Hudson Valley which is the place investigated in the article you aren't willing to read.

I didn't say I was unwilling to read the article, I said I had not read it yet, because I wanted to discuss the video I posted first. I don't understand why I'm getting trolled so hard over not reading some article when I've never made any claims about the condition of American foie gras farms.

 

[redfarmer]

I don't understand what strawman accusing you're accusing me of making.

I'm contending that many of the people who oppose foie gras do not oppose meat in general.

No one has argued against this on either side during this thread, except maybe Anthony Bourdain. It was brought up once regarding rhetoric in his video. No one contented that it wasn't just rhetoric, me included. That's why it's a strawman.

I never we should punish the four American farms.

Then you're not really for these anti-foie gras laws in America, which would shut down any foie gras farm within the jurisdiction of the law, whether they're humane, like Hudson Valley, or inhumane, like the Canadian farm featured in the video. Either you're for the laws as they are currently being written or not. These laws do not make distinctions between humane and inhumane. Which is it?

 

[redfarmer]

I didn't say I was unwilling to read the article, I said I had not read it yet, because I wanted to discuss the video I posted first. I don't understand why I'm getting trolled so hard over not reading some article when I've never made any claims about the condition of American foie gras farms.

You posted a lot of generalized claims from your video right underneath people who had commented on the Village Voice article, which makes it clear that, at least in the case of Hudson Valley, these conditions do not apply. You also expressed "surprise" no one had commented on your video. If you call questioning whether you had read the article "trolling" then you have a strange definition of trolling.

 

[Meed]

No one has argued against this on either side during this thread, except maybe Anthony Bourdain. It was brought up once regarding rhetoric in his video. No one contented that it wasn't just rhetoric, me included. That's why it's a strawman.

For the last time, I was responding to Skeletor. You were complaining that my response was irrelevant to something that you had written. Please read more carefully.

Then you're not really for these anti-foie gras laws in America, which would shut down any foie gras farm within the jurisdiction of the law, whether they're humane, like Hudson Valley, or inhumane, like the Canadian farm featured in the video. Either you're for the laws as they are currently being written or not. These laws do not make distinctions between humane and inhumane. Which is it?

I haven't researched the topic enough yet to have an opinion on American foie gras farms. I think all factory farms are inhumane, but I do not know if these farms are significantly more inhumane than normal duck and chicken farms.

If you're against the Canadian farms, but in favor of the American farms, then you must concede these laws do both some harm and some good. They won't shut the Canadian farms down, but they will reduce imports from said farms significantly.

 

[redfarmer]

Apparently they passed the bill in 2004. Interesting. I wonder if a black market will develop and if you'll be able to order it "under the table" at certain eateries.

I have a feeling the long implementation date was due to the fact this will actually impact a major foie fras farm in California, Sonoma Valley. As for a black market, if Chicago is any indication, open rebellion may become the norm. When Chicago outlawed foie gras, chefs openly continued to serve it in their restaurants and basically dared the city to cite them. They only cited one chef I can find before the prohibition was repealed under pressure from Richard Daley, who had referred to Chicago's ban as "the silliest law" the City Council has ever passed.

 

[Furcifer]

As I've already pointed out that was shot at the largest foie gras producer in Canada, which is where around 75% of the foie gras in the USA comes from. If you are eating foie gras in the US, chances are it came from Canada.

I think this is the Quebec farm I mentioned earlier. I know it was an issue 10 or more years ago, but more recently I've seen Quebec foie gras offered in high end restaurants again (3 years ago). I seem to recall there being some changes in the farming practices but that was a while ago. Is there any reason to believe they haven't?

 

[Meed]

No one has argued against this on either side during this thread, except maybe Anthony Bourdain. It was brought up once regarding rhetoric in his video. No one contented that it wasn't just rhetoric, me included. That's why it's a strawman.

I. Was. Responding. To. Skeletor.

Then you're not really for these anti-foie gras laws in America, which would shut down any foie gras farm within the jurisdiction of the law, whether they're humane, like Hudson Valley, or inhumane, like the Canadian farm featured in the video. Either you're for the laws as they are currently being written or not. These laws do not make distinctions between humane and inhumane. Which is it?

I'm for laws that would reduce imports from Canada. Laws that prohibit the sale of foie gras accomplish this so I am for them. I haven't researched American foie gras farms enough yet to have a firm opinion on them as I've said, so from this perspective I'm neither for or against laws that shut them down.