PETA and Foie Gras

[Skeletor]

For the last time, I was responding to Skeletor.

I. Was. Responding. To. Skeletor.

I write from the perspective of a non-expert who is near-vegan. While I think non foie gras farms are inhumane I think foie gras force feeding is clearly more inhumane than normal practice. But how much more I can't give a definitive answer to. I hope more farms continue to consult animal welfare experts, as Hudson Valley appears to be doing and I'd like to think animal proponent activists have and will continue to play a role in bringing that kind of thing about.

I'm glad you read the article, cornsail. Didn't know how much discussion my post would provoke! Since you admit you're a near-vegan, perhaps this proves my hypothesis about vegan/vegetarian opposition to foie gras production. I sincerely doubt there will be any compromises by the PETA folks for ANY of the methods used today to raise animals, be they ducks, geese, chickens, goats, cows. They will lobby legislatures to regulate, leading to regulate people's livelihood into nonexistence. It's already happened in California.

This thread has inspired me to finally take a stand on foie gras. I'm definitely going to try it next weekend!

Good luck finding some in the Portland Area, let me know where you went! This thread has me wanting foie gras and veal for some reason.

 

[Retrograde]

I had a taste of foie gras in Paris, about 15 years ago. If I close my eyes and think back I can still taste it, that's how rich it was. It's not something I'd like to eat on a regular basis, though.

As long as you're going to utilize the entire bird, why not produce foie gras?

 

[The Don]

Veal too. Don't limit yourself just because it's a confined baby cow.

British rose veal doesn't come from confined baby cows, it's a by product of the dairy industry and comes from predominantly male calves who would otherwise be killed much earlier.

 

[RandFan]

Veal is a valid complaint and challenge for those who don't eat it but do drink milk.

 

[RandFan]

I had a taste of foie gras in Paris, about 15 years ago. If I close my eyes and think back I can still taste it, that's how rich it was. It's not something I'd like to eat on a regular basis, though.

As long as you're going to utilize the entire bird, why not produce foie gras?

I'm not sure how suffering is justified be taste.

 

[RandFan]

The act is inherently selfish. The gift-giver doesn't care one bit about the recipient and wants them to get out of their hair so they can get back to what they were doing before they were so rudely interrupted. There is no care for the recipient, if they wanted a pony, what they really wanted, if they can even care for a pony. It's a bandaid, a gag. The anthropomorphism is yours, to assume that every human wants a pony.

I see no evidence that furcifer is anything but a troll. It's not a title I use often but there is no valid point he/she will agree to. Saying that the use of the term "livestock" is the equivalent of anthropomorphism, and an appeal to emotion and no premise will be conceded is just trolling, IMO.

 

[Soymilk420]

Why dont folks try some Faux Gras, there are a few brands Ive seen and numerous recipes...yeah we vegans will "veganize" just about anything, we got a shop in Oakland that sells things like fake "intestine" and sea cucumbers (the real ones are actually animals not vegetable)

 

[NewtonTrino]

Why dont folks try some Faux Gras, there are a few brands Ive seen and numerous recipes...yeah we vegans will "veganize" just about anything, we got a shop in Oakland that sells things like fake "intestine" and sea cucumbers (the real ones are actually animals not vegetable)

Mainly because I don't want to eat grains, I want to eat protein/fat. If I was going to eat vegetarian I would eat vegetables that actually taste good as vegetables. Not grains pressed into meat patties.

I guarantee you there is absolutely no vegan alternative that tastes the same or has the texture of real foie gras.

 

[Soymilk420]

Mainly because I don't want to eat grains, I want to eat protein/fat.

um grains are composed of proteins and fat
i think you mean to say you want animal proteins and animal fat.
just being pedantic, i knew what you probably meant

 

[Furcifer]

Why dont folks try some Faux Gras, there are a few brands Ive seen and numerous recipes...yeah we vegans will "veganize" just about anything, we got a shop in Oakland that sells things like fake "intestine" and sea cucumbers (the real ones are actually animals not vegetable)

I've had a couple of the vegetarian pates and they're actually not bad. They're way different though, and nothing like foie gras. It's something to consider plating along with liverwurst and cheeses, but probably not as a substitute for foie gras.

 

[redfarmer]

Why dont folks try some Faux Gras, there are a few brands Ive seen and numerous recipes...yeah we vegans will "veganize" just about anything, we got a shop in Oakland that sells things like fake "intestine" and sea cucumbers (the real ones are actually animals not vegetable)

I occasionally use some staple vegetarian foods while cooking (such as tofu), but I was always amazed with these processed vegetarian alternatives to meat products just how unhealthy they are.

For example, according to http://caloriecount.about.com, before toppings, a typical hamburger, depending on the lean meat/fat ratio, has somewhere between 150 to 213 calories. A Better Burger, one of the more popular vegetarian alternatives to hamburgers, has 390 calories before toppings.

Now, I will admit, in the case of foie gras and faux gras, the faux gras is somewhat healthier: foie gras has 250 calories while the same 2 oz serving of faux gras has 100 calories.

Admittedly, anyone who wants to eat foie gras probably isn't going to care about this anyway: people eat foie gras for the taste, not the calories. I just wanted to point out my rationale for why I don't always trust vegetarian alternatives to meat products. Were I to ever become a vegetarian again, I would want to cook dishes involving vegetable and fruits and avoid all these processed soy products.

 

[mumblethrax]

For example, according to http://caloriecount.about.com, before toppings, a typical hamburger, depending on the lean meat/fat ratio, has somewhere between 150 to 213 calories. A Better Burger, one of the more popular vegetarian alternatives to hamburgers, has 390 calories before toppings.

I don't know what a Better Burger is, and I can't find it on that site. Help me out?

I did search for 'burger' and didn't find any beef hamburgers that rated higher than a B in the first few pages. Then I searched for 'vegan burger' and didn't find anything that rated lower than a B. I think this is maybe more informative, as far as ad hoc analyses go.

I also tend to think 'processed' is a meaningless scare word.

 

[Soymilk420]

I occasionally use some staple vegetarian foods while cooking (such as tofu), but I was always amazed with these processed vegetarian alternatives to meat products just how unhealthy they are.

For example, according to http://caloriecount.about.com, before toppings, a typical hamburger, depending on the lean meat/fat ratio, has somewhere between 150 to 213 calories. A Better Burger, one of the more popular vegetarian alternatives to hamburgers, has 390 calories before toppings.

Now, I will admit, in the case of foie gras and faux gras, the faux gras is somewhat healthier: foie gras has 250 calories while the same 2 oz serving of faux gras has 100 calories.

Admittedly, anyone who wants to eat foie gras probably isn't going to care about this anyway: people eat foie gras for the taste, not the calories. I just wanted to point out my rationale for why I don't always trust vegetarian alternatives to meat products. Were I to ever become a vegetarian again, I would want to cook dishes involving vegetable and fruits and avoid all these processed soy products.

I dont think total calories is a good measure of healthy/versus unhealthy. The calorie count may be good to know if you are trying to maintain a particular calorie count for the day though. But since you mentioned it, my favorite burger is the Gardein beefless burger(not Garden Burger which is gross), it appears to have only 130 calories and is the only burger Ive had that has had two meat eaters ask me if I was sure it wasn't meat and admit they had a hard time telling the difference, Im sure grilling it over hickory chips helped. My second favorite is Amy's Quarter Pound burgers, which only have 210 calories which seems pretty good for a quarter pounder.
I would also like to point out that Better Burger is not a brand of packaged food rather it is a fast food restaurant in NYC... at first i felt that this might be why there was a caloric difference...but then I did some more digging and found that you were in fact looking at the link for the burger WITH bun and fixings...the burger without a bun and fixings is only 200 calories
http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-better-burger-veggie-i57728

Ive done a comparison of the vegan cheese i use and its pretty much on par with the cow cheese my girlfriend the only difference is that the vegan cheese contains no dietary cholesterol but otherwise it just as fatty if not slightly more.

*upon rereading my post sounded snarky or combative which wasn't my intention, maybe this will make it better...

 

[redfarmer]

I dont think total calories is a good measure of healthy/versus unhealthy. The calorie count may be good to know if you are trying to maintain a particular calorie count for the day though. But since you mentioned it, my favorite burger is the Gardein beefless burger(not Garden Burger which is gross), it appears to have only 130 calories and is the only burger Ive had that has had two meat eaters ask me if I was sure it wasn't meat and admit they had a hard time telling the difference, Im sure grilling it over hickory chips helped. My second favorite is Amy's Quarter Pound burgers, which only have 210 calories which seems pretty good for a quarter pounder.
I would also like to point out that Better Burger is not a brand of packaged food rather it is a fast food restaurant in NYC... at first i felt that this might be why there was a caloric difference...but then I did some more digging and found that you were in fact looking at the link for the burger WITH bun and fixings...the burger without a bun and fixings is only 200 calories
http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-better-burger-veggie-i57728

Ive done a comparison of the vegan cheese i use and its pretty much on par with the cow cheese my girlfriend the only difference is that the vegan cheese contains no dietary cholesterol but otherwise it just as fatty if not slightly more.

*upon rereading my post sounded snarky or combative which wasn't my intention, maybe this will make it better...

Fair enough--I stand corrected. I was looking for an example and obviously picked a bad one. That'll teach me to type right before bed.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

British rose veal doesn't come from confined baby cows, it's a by product of the dairy industry and comes from predominantly male calves who would otherwise be killed much earlier.

How much of the global veal market does it comprise though?

Veal is a valid complaint and challenge for those who don't eat it but do drink milk.

Why? There are two acceptable solutions:

• Kill the bull calves soon after birth
• Raise them in decent conditions as pink veal.

The only problematic option is confining them in a crate in the dark for a couple of months to get snow white meat.

 

[RandFan]

Why? There are two acceptable solutions:

• Kill the bull calves soon after birth
• Raise them in decent conditions as pink veal.

The only problematic option is confining them in a crate in the dark for a couple of months to get snow white meat.

I didn't say it was an insoluble solution. I said "challenge".

In any event, I think for many people killing baby calves for milk isn't a great solution and for many it would be unacceptable. If it were the only option I personally wouldn't drink milk.

The second option is a little bit better but not tremendously so. It's still killed young.

FWIW: I lean ethical nihilist. I don't claim any absolute or ultimate morality. If I say "challenge" that is precisely what I mean and I stand by it. You can't declare for others what is and is not acceptable. I don't go around telling people that their moral perceptions are wrong. I will tell them when I think they are being inconsistent. I'll confess I'm not always consistent but I strive to be.

 

[Spindrift]

I'm glad you read the article, cornsail. Didn't know how much discussion my post would provoke! Since you admit you're a near-vegan, perhaps this proves my hypothesis about vegan/vegetarian opposition to foie gras production. I sincerely doubt there will be any compromises by the PETA folks for ANY of the methods used today to raise animals, be they ducks, geese, chickens, goats, cows. They will lobby legislatures to regulate, leading to regulate people's livelihood into nonexistence. It's already happened in California.

Good luck finding some in the Portland Area, let me know where you went! This thread has me wanting foie gras and veal for some reason.

You can order foie gras from Hudson Valley on-line:
http://www.hudsonvalleyfoiegras.com/foiegrasmarket.html

It ain't cheap and you get the whole liver. That's a lot of foie gras. It does freeze pretty well though.

 

[Spindrift]

There used to be a site that listed restaurants that served foie gras in an effort to get people to boycott the restaurants. I found it a great resource to find a restaurant that served my wife's favorite dish. How's that for irony? I can't remember what the site was though.

 

[citizenzen]

How's that for irony?

For you personally, it may have been ironic.

For others, it may have been less so.

The more information we have available, the better.

How ironic that information is will be up to each of us to determine.

 

[RandFan]

How ironic that irony is used in an ironic fashion?