Otherkin?

Patchbunny says this, though, Delvo:

patchbunny said:
Yeah, I'm a fur. (I think the user name is a bit of a giveaway.) Furries are people, and you'll find nut cases in our group as you would any other. I don't see us as producing more nutcases than you'd find elsewhere. I've only ever met one person who genually believed he was an animal trapped in a human body, so I think the 6% figure is way off. You'll find people who have a strong connection with their totem animal, but genuine species diphoria(?)/dimorphism(?) (there's a correct word there somewhere), it's damn few from my experience.
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Bikewer said:
I don't have any attraction to the furry thing... But I admit that on some of my "artistic photography" sites.... I see an occasional little kitty-girl, usually Japanese... And they are...Well, adorable.
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Well, do you mean a cat-girl or a furry cat-girl?(link is work-safe) Japanese catgirls (neko) tend to "just" have a few cat features, namely tails, ears (oddly enough catgirls tend to have both human and cat ears...weird), and occasionally fangs. Otherwise they look human, and lack fur on the rest of their skin.

Though some argue they are the same, blah blah...the more you know, right?
 
When she wrote the word, did she replace the "i" with an "e"? That makes it a completely different thing. It's like magick.
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Yes, she did. I don't know what that's supposed to signify; all I knew at the time was that she was someone I found very interesting and intriguing who just happened to wear fake wings around the house and sprinkle strangers with glitter. Fortunately, she wasn't so far into it as to make it a deal-breaker. I'm quite tolerant of people's, shall we say, nonconformities, but even I have my limits.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Yes, she did. I don't know what that's supposed to signify
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It doesn't really signify anything aside from pretension. 'Fae/Faery' is the old form of the work, which evolved into 'fairy'. It's typically used to differentiate between the old traditions regarding the "fair folk", who are often far from pleasant in the old folklore; and the modern, fluffly, Disneyfied version. Kind of pointless, since most of the Faeryworlds types I am familiar with have more in common with the fluffy Disney version.
 
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Also "faerie".

I relate it to "magick" because getting picky about, or correcting others about, a spelling or pronunciation is often treated as a sign that the person who knows/uses the less common version knows more about it than others and is to be taken seriously on the subject, and that the subject, when referred to that way, deserves to be taken more seriously and respected more than it generally is when referred to the more common way. In other words, common references to the subject in question are dismissive, but if you're getting the spelling or pronunciation (or even the whole name) wrong, then you might be equally wrong to dismiss it as silly or childish or crazy or such.

For example:

Someone who says "VOO-doo": uninitiated, uninformed, & unfairly dismissive

Someone who says "vo-DOO" or "vo-DOON": more educated & having more perspective about another culture

Some Star Trek fans were also going for something similar when they rebelled against "Trekkies" and said they should be called "Trekkors/Trekkers". It's also why I asked in that other thread whether "Furries" avoid that word and call themselves "Furs" instead. I know there are a few more examples I've seen and been sure of, but the only other one I can think of right now is one that seems to fit but might actually have a different background: "Wicca" and "Wiccan" instead of "witchcraft" and "witch". (It doesn't matter whether the "insider" preferred reference is a new invention or a revived archaic one.)
 
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Delvo said:
Some Star Trek fans were also going for something similar when they rebelled against "Trekkies" and said they should be called "Trekkors/Trekkers". It's also why I asked in that other thread whether "Furries" avoid that word and call themselves "Furs" instead. I know there are a few more examples I've seen and been sure of, but the only other one I can think of right now is one that seems to fit but might actually have a different background: "Wicca" and "Wiccan" instead of "witchcraft" and "witch". (It doesn't matter whether the "insider" preferred reference is a new invention or a revived archaic one.)
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I've certainly seen the terminology rants from quite a number of groups. I can't recall ever seeing one regarding furry/fur however, the two seem to be used pretty much interchangeably. Just never seems to come up. I know that the magic/magick thing comes from those who want to differentiate their "real" ceremonial magick from stage magic trickery.
 
Hello, I actually registered just for this thread.

I am a therian (person who identifies internally as an animal). Otherkin is usually used for people who identify as mythological beings. Furry is a broad subculture/fandom thing about anthropomorphic animals, and while there are furries who are therians as well, these things are not the same. I am not part of the furry community (most fursuits creep me out).
I realize that therianthropy and otherkinity(?) sound very strange. It's a subjective experience and is hard to explain... But it is normally not considered to be mental illness. Many of us have discussed our identities with mental health professionals, and they aren't worried about us. I live a pretty normal life: I am a biology student with interest in language and dance. I don't go around and push my "wolf feelings" in people's faces, most don't even know I am a therian.

I didn't know this forum existed until recently. Interesting, since I have sometimes "encouraged" people online who claim to have special powers to take the Randi challenge. Strange that they never do ;)

Anyway, if you are curious about therians and otherkin, perhaps I can help. Note that I am only one individual, and I cannot answer everything.
 
Welcome Susitar. Hang around the forum. You will find it an interesting, informative and (mainly) tolerant place.
 
Susitar said:
Hello, I actually registered just for this thread.

I am a therian (person who identifies internally as an animal). Otherkin is usually used for people who identify as mythological beings. Furry is a broad subculture/fandom thing about anthropomorphic animals, and while there are furries who are therians as well, these things are not the same. I am not part of the furry community (most fursuits creep me out).
I realize that therianthropy and otherkinity(?) sound very strange. It's a subjective experience and is hard to explain... But it is normally not considered to be mental illness. Many of us have discussed our identities with mental health professionals, and they aren't worried about us. I live a pretty normal life: I am a biology student with interest in language and dance. I don't go around and push my "wolf feelings" in people's faces, most don't even know I am a therian.

I didn't know this forum existed until recently. Interesting, since I have sometimes "encouraged" people online who claim to have special powers to take the Randi challenge. Strange that they never do ;)

Anyway, if you are curious about therians and otherkin, perhaps I can help. Note that I am only one individual, and I cannot answer everything.
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Welcome! What do mean by the highlighted part? Do you think you are a wolf in a human body? A wolf reincarnated as a human? Something else?

I commented earlier in this thread that the only way to actual think you are not a human is because the human brain is the only known brain that could come up with such an idea, how do you feel about that?

Eta: my exact words were,

The thing that gets me riled up about this is that the only means by which they could develop the very idea that they are a fox or wolf or dolphin in a human body is because they are actually *********** humans! The very concept of categorizing, naming, and assigning attributes to every animal we see is, to the best of our knowledge, a uniquely human quality. The ability to transmit the concepts is uniquely human.

That is unless there are a bunch of foxes out there biting their tails trying to convince the other foxes that they are humans or dolphins or whatever.
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Please don't think be my aggressive tone I am going to be hostile towards you. Perhaps you can help me become more understanding. And again welcome to the forum.
 
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Thank you all for your nice welcomes!

Hm, in what way do I identify as wolf? My thoughts about it varies. One could say I feel like I should be a wolf, that I'm not meant to be a human. That something, that if I believed in souls I would probably call it that, is of a wolf. A more secular way of putting this is that my personality or mentality is wolf-like. I often wish I were a wolf, and sometimes I feel unhappy about my human body. I don't think wolves are better than humans. Both are just animals, you know? But for some reason, I have quirks that are similar to wolf instincts, and I feel more comfortable moving in a wolf-like manner etc. It's just this strong gut feeling together with some weird behaviours that made me call myself a wolf person.

I have used the "wolf in a human body" explanation sometimes to be brief. Of course, I am also human - I have a human brain, a human body and am raised in a human culture. But somehow I feel like a wolf too. How intense that feeling is varies.

I am kind of a sceptic when it comes to souls, spirits, reincarnation and so on. They are cool concepts, and I don't mind it if someone else uses mythological explanations like that when describing their therianthropy. Personally, I have no idea why I am a wolf therian. I am hoping for research in the areas of psychology and neurology, but most research about therians and otherkin have thus far been more anthropological and sociological - just describing our communities, not trying to explain why some feel this way.

Yes, I think that in order to be able to strongly identify as something other than your body, you would have to have a specific type of brain. While perhaps an actual wolf would do "human" things, like try to walk on his hind legs, I doubt he would create a human identity because of that. Humans like to communicate about stuff, put on labels, describe themselves. So in a way, I agree with you. Using the label "wolf therian" is impossible without access to human language and thought. But even non-human animals can prefer the company of other species than their own, or imprint early in life on another species. Perhaps humans, being extremely social and imaginative, have an easier time identifying with other species. The extreme of this being people who not just identify with, but identify as, animals.
 
Susitar said:
Thank you all for your nice welcomes!

Hm, in what way do I identify as wolf? My thoughts about it varies. One could say I feel like I should be a wolf, that I'm not meant to be a human. That something, that if I believed in souls I would probably call it that, is of a wolf. A more secular way of putting this is that my personality or mentality is wolf-like.
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You are a biologist, right? How much would you say you know about wolf behaviour / mentality / personality? I take it you don't actually act like a wolf? (Running down caribou / marking your stuff with urine / howling...that sort of thing.)*
*I did once spend half an hour with a dog, howling at the moon. Wonderfully therapeutic.
I often wish I were a wolf, and sometimes I feel unhappy about my human body. I don't think wolves are better than humans. Both are just animals, you know? But for some reason, I have quirks that are similar to wolf instincts, and I feel more comfortable moving in a wolf-like manner etc. It's just this strong gut feeling together with some weird behaviours that made me call myself a wolf person.
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Why not dog like? Dogs are unquestionably a lot like humans, to the extent they can live happily in an all human group in a human house. Wolves (ie those wolves which are not dogs) would find this harder- which is why they are not dogs, I suppose.
I have used the "wolf in a human body" explanation sometimes to be brief. Of course, I am also human - I have a human brain, a human body and am raised in a human culture. But somehow I feel like a wolf too. How intense that feeling is varies.
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Does this feeling vary in strength depending on place, activity etc?
I think most of us would acknowledge a feeling of connectedness to nature while walking in the woods, but less so while fixing a car. Do you reckon your wolf thing is essentially the same feeling, but with a mental focus on a particular animal?
I am kind of a sceptic when it comes to souls, spirits, reincarnation and so on. They are cool concepts, and I don't mind it if someone else uses mythological explanations like that when describing their therianthropy. Personally, I have no idea why I am a wolf therian. I am hoping for research in the areas of psychology and neurology, but most research about therians and otherkin have thus far been more anthropological and sociological - just describing our communities, not trying to explain why some feel this way.

Yes, I think that in order to be able to strongly identify as something other than your body, you would have to have a specific type of brain. While perhaps an actual wolf would do "human" things, like try to walk on his hind legs, I doubt he would create a human identity because of that. Humans like to communicate about stuff, put on labels, describe themselves. So in a way, I agree with you. Using the label "wolf therian" is impossible without access to human language and thought. But even non-human animals can prefer the company of other species than their own, or imprint early in life on another species. Perhaps humans, being extremely social and imaginative, have an easier time identifying with other species. The extreme of this being people who not just identify with, but identify as, animals.
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When I was a kid, I was a giant robot- but with 3 guys in my head doing the driving- one of whom was a young apprentice , and I was him, too. That sort of imaginative play is common in young humans and may have analogues in some animals, but is generally abandoned by people. Is it possible that you simply hung onto it ?
ETA- That looks like a rather cheeky comment. It's not meant to be. It just seems more likely that a human adult would retain a human childish behaviour than that he would somehow acquire a non-human nature.
 
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Susitar said:
Hm, in what way do I identify as wolf? My thoughts about it varies. One could say I feel like I should be a wolf, that I'm not meant to be a human. That something, that if I believed in souls I would probably call it that, is of a wolf. A more secular way of putting this is that my personality or mentality is wolf-like. I often wish I were a wolf, and sometimes I feel unhappy about my human body.
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I'd like to add to the welcomes!

What I'm curious about is: humans start out knowing nothing of wolves and gradually must learn about them. Depending where they live, children may be several years old or even into adulthood before they actually see a live wolf, and may never see one in the wild. As they're gradually exposed to images and information about wolves, they may learn more or less accurate things, from cartoon images to movies to nature programs.

Can you remember when you first felt this sensation? How did you learn about wolves? I'm curious if someone could feel as if they should be a wolf before they know much about what a wolf is. Are you ever surprised to learn something about wolf behavior that doesn't fit your preconceived internal idea of what wolves are like?
 
Soapy Sam said:
You are a biologist, right? How much would you say you know about wolf behaviour / mentality / personality? I take it you don't actually act like a wolf? (Running down caribou / marking your stuff with urine / howling...that sort of thing.)*
*I did once spend half an hour with a dog, howling at the moon. Wonderfully therapeutic.
Why not dog like? Dogs are unquestionably a lot like humans, to the extent they can live happily in an all human group in a human house. Wolves (ie those wolves which are not dogs) would find this harder- which is why they are not dogs, I suppose.
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I would say I know a lot about wolves. While I am becoming a plant physiologist, not a zoologist, I have looked up a lot of information about wolves in my free time, including recent scientific publications.

I have a lot of canine urges (such as hunting, howling, walking on the balls of my feet, pant with my tongue out etc). Some of these I take care to not do IRL (chasing off/killing neighbour dogs would not be popular or even possible), some urges I do not experience at all (I do not want to feed vomit/half-eaten meat to pups) and some urges I let into. For instance, most people don't notice if I walk on the balls of my feet, and if I am out in an abandonded area, it is safe to howl, run on all fours, follow rabbit tracks...
I did of course compare similar animals. After all, wolves are similar to both jackals, coyotes and dogs. But since I bark very seldom compared to how much I howl, when I feel animalistic I tend to avoid other humans and I have a strong hunting instinct, I consider myself more similar to a wolf than a dog.
I did similar comparisons to coyotes, jackals, foxes, dholes etc.

Soapy Sam said:
Does this feeling vary in strength depending on place, activity etc?
I think most of us would acknowledge a feeling of connectedness to nature while walking in the woods, but less so while fixing a car. Do you reckon your wolf thing is essentially the same feeling, but with a mental focus on a particular animal?
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Fluctuations in animal/human mentality is known as "mental shifts" in the therian community. Sometimes I get them randomly, sometimes it depends on activity. For instance - I feel more human when writing, calculating, playing video games. But I feel more canine when doing physical exercise, having sex, when hungry, when playing with dogs and so on.
I can feel that connection to nature that a lot of people feel as well, but that is a more human feeling. That serene, thankful feeling of being able to appreciate the beauty of nature. I find that different from having canine impulses like "chase that rabbit!" or "lick that person's face!".

Soapy Sam said:
Is it possible that you simply hung onto it ?
ETA- That looks like a rather cheeky comment. It's not meant to be. It just seems more likely that a human adult would retain a human childish behaviour than that he would somehow acquire a non-human nature.
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Perhaps, I have no idea. *shrug* But even as a child, when I howled or did other wolf-stuff, I took it somehow more seriously than the other kids, and it was different from playing as other animals. Your idea might be onto something, but on the other hand, I do not know.

Pup said:
I'd like to add to the welcomes!
Can you remember when you first felt this sensation? How did you learn about wolves? I'm curious if someone could feel as if they should be a wolf before they know much about what a wolf is. Are you ever surprised to learn something about wolf behavior that doesn't fit your preconceived internal idea of what wolves are like?
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I know, since my mother told me, that I chased pigeons and wanted to eat them when I was 3 years old. I guess that could count as my first wolfish behaviour? I also loved to howl and other stuff when I was 7-8 years old. But I didn't start to think about this until I was in my early teens, since my "instincts" came back stronger then. As a child, I also liked cats more than dogs, and foxes more than wolves.
I don't remember a time I didn't know what a wolf was. I probably heard fairy tales before I could speak, and I know I watched a lot of nature documentaries as a small child. There is also a local zoo that has Eurasian wolves, and I have seen them many times.
So far, very little about wolves has surprised me, sometimes when I learn new information, I've been chocked when it explains something about me.

I can come to think of a time when it was obvious I didn't know everything about wolves: when I got to know that the idea of "alpha-beta-omega" strict hierarchy wasn't true, it felt kind of like a relief? I had bought into that myth for a while as a teen, but I wasn't comfortable with the idea of alphas ruling with violence etc. I was also surprised when I understood how big wolves can get - I've seen pictures of record-breaking wolves that have really chocked me. So, in light of this information, I've started to consider myself belonging to a bit smaller subspecies. :P

This idea that a therian identifies as an animal they have heard a lot about as kids is something I've thought about as well. It doesn't explain all therians - some experience things that feel animal but have to search in order to find out what animals does that, sometimes finding out that they "are" animals they've never heard of. But, there is a very high occurrence of therians identifying as canines or felines, and this could perhaps be because how well-known they are in human culture. Most children know about dogs, wolves and foxes long before they learn about viverrids or tunicates.
 
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Have you done scientific research on wolves? On what do you base your notions of wolf like behavior or quirks that you exhibit?

It really seems that you are anthropamorphizing wolf behavior to fit your own character traits. I am a loner, a lone wolf. Perhaps you prefer a tight knit social pack with clearly defined alphas and omegas. Perhaps you prefer a social network with changing leadership. The thing is that no two wolves or wolf packs act the same so it would be rather difficult to say you are wolf like as their behavior varies just as it does in dogs.

I have one dog that's a swimmer but not a digger and another that is the opposite. Other than hunting, mating, and rearing pups wolves can have very little in common behaviors with each other and across packs.

Eta: I see now that you literally mean you go outside and act as you think a wolf would act. As long as you are not hurting anyone else than have at it. I think it's a learned behavior you are displaying in reaction to some event or a lifetime of events. It's how you release and how you deal with life. Some people go to the gym, some howl at the moon and chase rabbits.
 
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I also wanted to chime in, as a dragon otherkin. I've been registered here for some time.

Otherkin and therians exist on a spectrum. There are those who are very deep into magic, believing in fate or a "purpose", there are subcommunities based on shared extraterrestrial origin (some of the elves.. not related to "starseeds"), and a very tiny minority who believes they are genetically nonhuman, those who just simply have spiritual or religious beliefs in addition to their nonhuman identities, those that believe it is past lives and on the other end of the spectrum those who feel their nonhuman identities are simply a mental quirk of some kind that they embrace.

Recently there have been arguments from spiritual based otherkin that skeptical/atheist type otherkin (I prefer the term naturalist, seems to make more sense in this context) should just admit they are furries and GTFO. Naturally, as one such I disagree. The differences can be subtle and there is overlap, but they are there.
 
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