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Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend

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The Don said:
I'm not sure what this single damning piece of evidence would be.
Oscar Pistorius has admitted to killing Reeva, the debate is about the circumstances around it. Given that the "accidentally shooting Reeva in the toilet thinking she was a burglar" and "deliberately shooting her in the toilet" would leave the same crime scene.

We have prosecution testimony from "ear witnesses" which seems to disprove the defence narrative and defence "ear witnesses" which supports it.

There's the evidence from the pathologist that Reeva ate later but of course as Samson points out, she could have snuck out of bed and eaten without Oscar's knowledge.

Part of the problem of finding this single piece of evidence is that AFAIK the story seems to have changed ever so slightly since the bail hearing. Of course this isn't unusual, Oscar could be recalling more details of that terrible evening that he has suppressed until now.
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A the clear (to Oscar) impossibility of someone getting in through the bathroom window
B a text from her saying she was scared
C a search on her phone for the emergency number
D evidence of arguments well before the shooting (to address GlennB's point)
E some damning inconsistency in his story
F proof that she did not use the toilet to pee
G proof that he must have heard her flush if she did pee
H evidence proving how sounds carry in the apartment
I proof that he was planning to drive her body somewhere and dump it
J some kind of killer forensic point on bullet trajectories (don't ask me what but it was spoken of in the early days)
K proof his fan was never on the balcony
L something, anything!
 
icerat said:
Nah. It's possible she went to the bathroom for a glass of water and locked herself in the toilet when OP shouted about an intruder.
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Good point although, as Rolfe isn't around, allow me to usurp her qualifications and tell you that her bladder was found to be completely empty suggesting she had urinated shortly before death (since the bladder is always filling).
 
It could be what with being young and stupid and maybe having issues about being a real man etc that he wanted to demonstrate his courage to Reeva by slaying the phantom intruder.
 
anglolawyer said:
Good point although, as Rolfe isn't around, allow me to usurp her qualifications and tell you that her bladder was found to be completely empty suggesting she had urinated shortly before death (since the bladder is always filling).
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Her bladder was not found to be completely empty. A small amount of urine was found.
 
I heard it reported as having been completely empty, by the pathologist who did the PM and who said he couldn't even get a few drops for toxicological analysis. However it has since been reported that there was indeed a small amount of urine there. If that's correct, it changes the metric of that argument.

Rolfe.
 
Prof Saayman testified that there was roughly a teaspoon or 5ml of urine found in the bladder. Would that have been sufficient for toxicology and what would that say about when last she urinated?
 
Someone more versed in this can correct me if I am wrong, but from googling, the minimum rate of urine production is about 30ml (less than this over a period of time is seen as a problem). 40-80ml per hour seems to be a normal range.

So that suggests that she urinated a fairly short time before she was killed. She could have produced 5mls in 5 minutes.

Stress can reduce urine output, so maybe it was longer if they were arguing.

ETA I'm also finding 0.5ml/kg/hr as a minimum and 1ml/kg/hr with optimal hydration - where kg is the subject's body weight.
 
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anglolawyer said:
It could be what with being young and stupid and maybe having issues about being a real man etc that he wanted to demonstrate his courage to Reeva by slaying the phantom intruder.
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Without even considering the astronomically higher probability that it was Reeva in the bathroom?
 
icerat said:
Nah. It's possible she went to the bathroom for a glass of water and locked herself in the toilet when OP shouted about an intruder.
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Yes OP is so paranoid about noise thinking it's an intruder in the bathroom, but somehow being totally oblivious to the noise of her getting out of bed and walking across the room and down the hallway. And she doesn't call back when she hears the "warning"? She already knows the bedroom is clear after walking through it.
Yes of course this is possible. :rolleyes:
 
MontagK505 said:
Yes OP is so paranoid about noise thinking it's an intruder in the bathroom, but somehow being totally oblivious to the noise of her getting out of bed and walking across the room and down the hallway. And she doesn't call back when she hears the "warning"? She already knows the bedroom is clear after walking through it.
Yes of course this is possible. :rolleyes:
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He also failed to notice her moving off the bed and the light of her phone after he told her to “get down and phone the police.” He was right next to the bed. This isn't a simple case of only missing RS going to the pot – he had multiple opportunities to verify her location.

And why didn't he lock his windows? Is that part of hypervigilant behavior? It seems that his extreme fear of intruders only applied when it fit his version.
 
anglolawyer said:
Well, yes. He may gave jumped to a conclusion and acted hastily.
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There are two possibilities for OP to consider. Either a highly improbable case of a home invader going into his bathroom, closing the door and turning on the lights... or a highly probable case of the woman who lives in his house having gotten up to go to the bathroom between the time he last saw her in bed and the time he realizes the bathroom is occupied. Just in case the astronomically improbable case has occurred, he decides to fire multiple shots blindly through a closed door, and accept the very high risk of executing the woman he loves. And... doesn't even think to confirm her location before shooting to kill.
 
Scordatura said:
He also failed to notice her moving off the bed and the light of her phone after he told her to “get down and phone the police.” He was right next to the bed. This isn't a simple case of only missing RS going to the pot – he had multiple opportunities to verify her location.

And why didn't he lock his windows? Is that part of hypervigilant behavior? It seems that his extreme fear of intruders only applied when it fit his version.
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Sure, while he's fumbling underneath the bed for his hand cannon, he doesn't reach across the mattress to see if she is there. By his own testimony he was afraid for his life and hers and yet somehow he totally misses the fact there was nothing but dead silence from the bed where his believes his beloved is present.
 
MontagK505 said:
Sure, while he's fumbling underneath the bed for his hand cannon, he doesn't reach across the mattress to see if she is there. By his own testimony he was afraid for his life and hers and yet somehow he totally misses the fact there was nothing but dead silence from the bed where his believes his beloved is present.
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Why not click on the light? The noise is coming from the bathroom which a quite a distance away. The reason none of this happened is because OP shot her during an argument. One can stretch the logic of it to the breaking point but it still makes no sense at all. Now add the neighbors hearing fighting and screaming...I have heard neighbors argue before...it is not confusing or to be confused with a distraught high pitched man voice calling for help. Sorry.

He murdered her in a fit of rage. And he was sorry 10 seconds after doing it. So what? He is a killer.
 
RandyN said:
Why not click on the light? The noise is coming from the bathroom which a quite a distance away. The reason none of this happened is because OP shot her during an argument. One can stretch the logic of it to the breaking point but it still makes no sense at all. Now add the neighbors hearing fighting and screaming...I have heard neighbors argue before...it is not confusing or to be confused with a distraught high pitched man voice calling for help. Sorry.

He murdered her in a fit of rage. And he was sorry 10 seconds after doing it. So what? He is a killer.
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This is very common. Many men who do this commit suicide.
 
trustbutverify said:
There are two possibilities for OP to consider. Either a highly improbable case of a home invader going into his bathroom, closing the door and turning on the lights... or a highly probable case of the woman who lives in his house having gotten up to go to the bathroom between the time he last saw her in bed and the time he realizes the bathroom is occupied. Just in case the astronomically improbable case has occurred, he decides to fire multiple shots blindly through a closed door, and accept the very high risk of executing the woman he loves. And... doesn't even think to confirm her location before shooting to kill.
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Incorrect. She didn't live in his house. She was only sleeping over. She phoned home to let her family know she'd decided to do that rather than try to get a taxi late at night. They were beating themselves up for not having insisted she come home anyway.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Incorrect. She didn't live in his house. She was only sleeping over. She phoned home to let her family know she'd decided to do that rather than try to get a taxi late at night. They were beating themselves up for not having insisted she come home anyway.

Rolfe.
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Thanks for the correction.
 
With the risk of going too much 'Columbo' in speculation.

How long before the shooting was the 'going full comando' against dishwasher/washing machine incident?
Could that have been an attempt in getting an alibi for the mistaken identity during the shooting?
 
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