One Million Rupees Offer to prove "Homeopathy is Paranormal"
- Thread starter Dr. MAS
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His student posted on 4/22 that he was going on a week tour. By now maybe he is back. And his account is no longer suspended.
I would be curious to know if the homeopathic doctors in Pakistan do anything in addition to diagnosing and prescribing homeopathic medicines. For instance, do they diagnose medical conditions and refer some patients to regular doctors for standard medical treatment? Do they suggest dietary and lifestyle changes? Do they treat some problems non-homeopathically (like treating wounds maybe)? Or is there no overlap with standard medical doctors, with only homeopathic diagnosis and remedies being used?
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Is it something you can't cut roses with?Donks said:
"The definition of Avogadro’s number was given for monocristalline structures. Strictly speaking, it should not be applied to solutions although it is customary to use it for dilutions. Avogadro’s number allows us to calculate the number of molecules in a given mass of a substance. In German speaking countries its is called Loschmidt’s number. Using Avogadro’s number, we find that in homeopathic dilutions we reach very quickly a stage where in theory there should not be any molecule."
Dr. Mas is not visting here. In the meantime, can you tell me aboute above quote?
Dr. Mas is not visting here. In the meantime, can you tell me aboute above quote?
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Yes. You pasted it in from here.Kumar said:
I'm not sure why thay imply that it strictly only applies to monocrystalline structures, or that it "should not be applied to solutions" (I don't know where their link to this page is). As far as I remember much of the original work the constant arose from was to do with gases (Avogadro's law states that "equal volumes of all gases at the same temperature and pressure contain the same number of molecules"). The value of the constant can be calculated from measurements of very pure crystal structures, but, as they say, it just allows us to calculate how many molecules there are in a given mass of a given substance. This applies to substances in solution just as it applies to gases or crystals.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Kumar said:
I can tell you absolutely that you have not understood what I wrote here;
" I'd just like to interject here about something that's niggled me for some time.
Our muppet-headed opponents like to toss about words like "Law" as if they understand the ideas behind them and then make up a load of their own laws so they can feel big and clever, but...
Avogadro's Law, as such, doesn't have much to do with what we are talking about. It is tangentially related only to the degree that a moderate macroscopic amount of any atomic or non-macromolecular substance is roughly one mole and one mole has an arbitrary definition involving Avogadro's Number (Arbitrary? Yes. We could have decided to standardise on ounces instead of grammes and define AN as the number of atoms/molecules in a mole where a mole would be an amount stated as the atomic/molecular weight in ounces). So, within a couple or orders of magnitude (which is close enough given how extravagant they are with their mad dilutions), if you do the arithmetic of homeopathic dilutions using Avogadro's number as your starting point you will get an approximate idea as to when the molecules run out as you serially dilute.
It is not Avogadro's Law that states that if you have a hundred red balls and dilute with 900 blue ones then aliquot the total and serially dilute enough times you will have tough time finding any red balls in a randomly chosen aliquot.
When MAS says we should look beyond Avogadro's Law he is just revealing how little he knows. It is not Avogadro's Law beyond which he would have to look but atomic theory, all of chemistry and the bleedin' obvious."
It's just a number Kumar. It comes up in relation to what we are discussing here only insofar as it give you scientific illiterates a rough guide to how many atoms or molecules there are in a typical portion of solute or solution.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Kumar said:
Either show some evidence that you have read and understood what I wrote or I will not answer.
Avogadro's law—Physical law stating that equal volumes of different ideal gases at the same temperature and pressure contain equal numbers of particles (molecules or atoms).
The interpretation of the law lies in the statistical–mechanical theory of equipartition of energy, and the ideal gas law is a consequence of this. The volume occupied by one mole of gas (see Avogadro's number) is the same for all gases (22.414 L)
Avogadro's number—The number of molecules (6.02214 × 1023) in one mole of gas.
That this number is a constant for permanent gases is Avogadro's law.
Loschmidt's number—Avogadro's number per unit liter, that is, 2.687 x 1022 per liter.
mole—A unit of mass numerically equal to the molecular weight of the substance.
The gram-mole or gram-molecule is the mass in grams numerically equal to the molecular weight; for example, a gram-mole of oxygen is 32 grams. (alikegram-molecular weight)
http://amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/browse?s=a&p=90 -
What happens on change in tempreture & pressure? What does it mean "equipartition of energy"?
I do not dispute on non presence of molecule roughly above 12C or 24X as you should have considered simple logic of molecules per ml or per gram instead of per gaseous volume & if molecules can't come out from glass or eqipments used. Mole is not a form but just a number per unit. We can calculate, molecules per ml or per gram or per volume. But we should not calculate on the basis that same nos of molecules will be there as in given volume of gas. We should calculate on per ml or per gram basis taking total quantity of contents in quantity in whole solution. I don't think that there can be same numbers of molecules in one ml or one gram or per volume of every substance similarily. You can do that, I think by taking atomic weight of the constituents of molecules.
Molecular weight or gram molecular weight is different for different substances. While calculating molecular presence in homopathic remedies, numbers of molecules per gramme or per mililiter is to be taken. To calculate it we should know gram molecular weight of raw remedy substance & carriers. But we may not be knowing gram molecular weight of organic based remedies. Acordingly, it can be wrong to calculate by considering numbers per gaseous volome instead of per ml or per gram. Pressure & tempereture differences can be there in solid, liquid & gaseous forms of same substance. Eg; liquid gas.
The interpretation of the law lies in the statistical–mechanical theory of equipartition of energy, and the ideal gas law is a consequence of this. The volume occupied by one mole of gas (see Avogadro's number) is the same for all gases (22.414 L)
Avogadro's number—The number of molecules (6.02214 × 1023) in one mole of gas.
That this number is a constant for permanent gases is Avogadro's law.
Loschmidt's number—Avogadro's number per unit liter, that is, 2.687 x 1022 per liter.
mole—A unit of mass numerically equal to the molecular weight of the substance.
The gram-mole or gram-molecule is the mass in grams numerically equal to the molecular weight; for example, a gram-mole of oxygen is 32 grams. (alikegram-molecular weight)
http://amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/browse?s=a&p=90 -
What happens on change in tempreture & pressure? What does it mean "equipartition of energy"?
I do not dispute on non presence of molecule roughly above 12C or 24X as you should have considered simple logic of molecules per ml or per gram instead of per gaseous volume & if molecules can't come out from glass or eqipments used. Mole is not a form but just a number per unit. We can calculate, molecules per ml or per gram or per volume. But we should not calculate on the basis that same nos of molecules will be there as in given volume of gas. We should calculate on per ml or per gram basis taking total quantity of contents in quantity in whole solution. I don't think that there can be same numbers of molecules in one ml or one gram or per volume of every substance similarily. You can do that, I think by taking atomic weight of the constituents of molecules.
Molecular weight or gram molecular weight is different for different substances. While calculating molecular presence in homopathic remedies, numbers of molecules per gramme or per mililiter is to be taken. To calculate it we should know gram molecular weight of raw remedy substance & carriers. But we may not be knowing gram molecular weight of organic based remedies. Acordingly, it can be wrong to calculate by considering numbers per gaseous volome instead of per ml or per gram. Pressure & tempereture differences can be there in solid, liquid & gaseous forms of same substance. Eg; liquid gas.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Kumar said:
What practical difference does that make? Does it mean homeopathic remedies become indistinguishable from each other and from solvent at higher or lower dilutions than 24X?
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Kumar said:BSM,
Let us first understand about molecular presence/traces. Whether these can create effects/action/resting potencials is a secondary issue.
Do homeopathic remedies become indistinguishable from each other and from solvent at higher or lower dilutions than 24X?
<strike>Fine! In that case, please ask any homeopath or even yourself, to apply for the JREF Million Dollar Challenge. All you need to do is reliably differentiate bottles of standard 30C homeopathic remedy from the base liquid (water or alcohol) under double-blind testing conditions.Kumar said:
So when will you be applying, Kumar?</strike>
Whoops!
:Didn't read the post properly, or the response!
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Good. That's what everyone on here has been telling you for the last couple of years.Badly Shaved Monkey[/i] Do homeopathic remedies become indistinguishable from each other and from solvent at higher or lower dilutions than 24X?[/quote][QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kumar said:
OK, so now that you've admitted that homeopathic remedies are indistinguishable from each other and from solvent, you have to admit that they don't work. If they worked better than the pure solvent you would be able to tell the difference, wouldn't you.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Kumar said:
It's an either/or question, Kumar. "Yes" is not a valid answer.
Let me help;
"Do homeopathic remedies become indistinguishable from each other and from solvent at higher or lower dilutions than 24X?"
Opps - backed into a corner, I sense a new thread about to appear!
"Quick look at all that glittering silica!"... scampering steps…
"Now by science attitude or may be 'for the interest of homeopathy'. But it energy flow is silica based dilution absolute possible no or yes?"
"Quick look at all that glittering silica!"... scampering steps…
"Now by science attitude or may be 'for the interest of homeopathy'. But it energy flow is silica based dilution absolute possible no or yes?"