Okay, I'm about ready to declare victory...

[JimBenArm]

From his other thread:

ETA: It seems like that link doesn't want to work today. Sorry!



It's a mocking version of something Dr. Greening mentions. Typical strawman thing.

OK, missed that. Thought it was some new woo-woo thing, like the beam weapon. I've learned not to think anything is too ridiculous for these loons!

 

[beachnut]

Well, I don't have a million dollars like James Randi...but point out the portion of the wheelhouse/superstructure that
is obscured by the mast...and I'll offer a free $500.

...or A. Jay Cristol states that CIA Director Helms stated in his memoirs that his opinions were not the official position of the CIA...

...another free $500 to the person who can produce that page number from Helms's book.

Still your post must prove victory over CT 9/11 nuts cases; you seem to be on a whole different level bringing up something from the 60s.

If you are trying to tie something in the 60s to 9/11; you have failed.

I asked what does the liberty have to do with 9/111?

I get some junk about???

 

[david carmichael]

Actually, Odigo was at 11 Broadway. (Source + source.)

On this map (courtesy of Google maps), the green arrow indicates 11 Broadway.

View attachment 4852

Now, your claim was:

Given that the warning was received at Odigo's Israeli office, that the warning was not specific (it didn't specify that the terrorist attack would be in New York), that Odigo's New York office was in no danger, how on earth can you claim that "Odigo received a two hours advanced notice to evacuate"?
Doesn't make any sense at all, does it?

Okay...#11 Broadway...thank you.

Did they evacuate?

The NewsBytes article, to the best of my recollection, stated they received two messages... did not say anything, as best as I recall, that the NY office ws not in danger.

 

[david carmichael]

From his other thread:

ETA: It seems like that link doesn't want to work today. Sorry!



It's a mocking version of something Dr. Greening mentions. Typical strawman thing.

Splendid...could you please hyperlink me to the "mocking version" then authored by Greening?

 

[maccy]

Splendid...could you please hyperlink me to the "mocking version" then authored by Greening?

You keep on going on about some "intelligent thermite" thesis, for example:

What was it that necessitated Greening feeling he had to advance an "intelligent thermite" thesis in the first place?

2) The "intelligent thermite" thesis

You're not doing a good job.... or you're avoiding issues that need to serve as the seed upon which future discussions pertaining to public policy formation will be based upon

Both quotes from the USS Liberty thread - so I've edited out stuff to do with that.

David, can you provide a link to where Greening advances an intelligent thermite thesis?

 

[Firestone]

Okay...#11 Broadway...thank you.

Did they evacuate?

The NewsBytes article, to the best of my recollection, stated they received two messages... did not say anything, as best as I recall, that the NY office ws not in danger.

No, they did not evacuate.

Why would they evacuate, and what facility should they evacuate?

Again, the unspecific warning (as MikeW correctly observed, even the term warning is not really correct) was received in Israel, not in New York. The two guys who read the thing only notified their management after they heard about the attacks in New York:

He said the employees who received the IM messages were not familiar with the sender. After the attacks, the employees notified Odigo management, who turned the information over to Israeli law enforcement authorities.

Source

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Splendid...could you please hyperlink me to the "mocking version" then authored by Greening?

Dr. Greening did not author a "mocking version" of intelligent thermite. The "mocking version" is the strawman argument built by CTists onto Dr. Greening's paper.

 

[R.Mackey]

Hey!!! Where are the guys who were ready to declare victory????

Bwaaaahaaa! They're fleeing. LOL!

On a message board that ...ahem..."debunkkkkkks" so many things

Geez. I go on vacation for a week, and when I come back, my beautiful thread has been vandalized with this tripe??

The "intelligent thermite" guys.... We need to know why someone felt the need to advance the "intelligent thermite" thesis IN THE FIRST PLACE as regards the 9/11 WTC attack

Easy. One of you nuts didn't understand what we were talking about and came up with the idea of "intelligent thermite." Nobody on our team has ever suggested such a thing.

MIRACLE #1

a)Since the USS Liberty did NOT have a transparent mast when it left Rota, Spain...

b)...and since our valuable ally in the war on terror would never lie... just like 9/11 WTC attacks

c)..and since our government would not lie about the murders of Americans... just like the 9/11 WTC attacks

This is just plain stupid.

You want to talk about USS Liberty, do it elsewhere. Spamming threads is a bannable offense.

Better yet, don't bother. Your "Evidence" is also "transparent," as is any vacuum.

 

[maccy]

To answer my own question, "intelligent thermite" is derisory term coined by mystery man Gordon Ross on his resolutely non peer-reviewed website.

Dr. Greening is, I believe, a chemist so it is only fair to look at this field of study first of all. One of his most well known arguments is that there could have been natural thermite reactions within the tower fires. He lists those ingredients which are necessary for this natural thermite and shows that all of these ingredients were present, so his argument follows that a natural thermite reaction could have taken place.

and

It came as an enormous surprise to me that some educated people have been taken in by this, most notably and recently was Manuel Garcia, in his Counterpunch article. What we are being asked to swallow in place of our absent fruit crumble, is that the tonnes of aluminium aircraft parts were powderised upon impact, thoroughly mixed with tonnes of rust from the towers steel superstructure in exactly the required proportion to form tonnes of thermite, which then hung around for about an hour before distributing itself to key structural points throughout the tower, then igniting in a complex sequence to cause the towers' collapse. It is granted that a good imagination is a requirement for a good scientist, but this just abuses the privilege. Perhaps the name for this natural thermite should instead be intelligent thermite, or intelligent malevolent thermite.

source: http://gordonssite.tripod.com/id4.html

As far as I'm aware, neither Greening nor Garcia are arguing that thermite caused the collapse. Instead they are simply stating that a natural thermite reaction could have occurred as part of the collapse, therefore evidence of a thermite reaction does not necessarily indicate that thermite was used to cut the columns.

In other words, Intelligent Thermite is a strawman dreamed up by Gordon Ross.

It's worth reading the whole of Ross' article for its amusement value.

For reference, here is what Garcia had to say:

Did patches of thermite form naturally, by chance, in the WTC Towers fires? Could there really have been small bits of melted steel in the debris as a result? Could there have been "thermite residues" on pieces of steel dug out of the debris months later? Maybe, but none of this leads to a conspiracy. If the post-mortem "thermite signature" suggested that a mass of thermite comparable to the quantities shown in Table 3 was involved, then further investigation would be reasonable. The first task of such an investigation would be to produce a "chemical kinetics" model of the oxidation of the fragmented aluminum airframe, in some degree of contact to the steel framing, in the hot atmosphere of hydrocarbon fires in the impact zone. Once Nature had been eliminated as a suspect, one could proceed to consider Human Malevolence.

source: http://www.counterpunch.org/thermo11282006.html

Also, Dr Greening's papers:
on thermite: http://www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf
on sulfur: http://www.911myths.com/Sulfur.pdf

 

[uk_dave]

Geez. I go on vacation for a week, and when I come back, my beautiful thread has been vandalized with this tripe??

Hey, it could have been worse, he could have started posting this crap on my award winning thread!

Oh the horror....the horror

 

[david carmichael]

No, they did not evacuate.

Why would they evacuate, and what facility should they evacuate?

Again, the unspecific warning (as MikeW correctly observed, even the term warning is not really correct) was received in Israel, not in New York. The two guys who read the thing only notified their management after they heard about the attacks in New York:

That's not what I recall from reading the newsbytes article.. it was a long time ago, but its not what I recall.


NOTE ON ANTISEMITISM:
On the USS Liberty thread, you're "intellectually outmatched" pro-Zionist shills have called in for reinforcements; to wit,

Pro-Zionist, Mike Weeks

and
Pro-Zionist, Theodore Bell


They will both tell you there is not an anti-semitic bone in my body...

...and they've BOTH known me alot longer than any of you.

 

[david carmichael]

To answer my own question, "intelligent thermite" is derisory term coined by mystery man Gordon Ross on his resolutely non peer-reviewed website.

and
source: http://gordonssite.tripod.com/id4.html

As far as I'm aware, neither Greening nor Garcia are arguing that thermite caused the collapse. Instead they are simply stating that a natural thermite reaction could have occurred as part of the collapse, therefore evidence of a thermite reaction does not necessarily indicate that thermite was used to cut the columns.

In other words, Intelligent Thermite is a strawman dreamed up by Gordon Ross.

It's worth reading the whole of Ross' article for its amusement value.

For reference, here is what Garcia had to say:



source: http://www.counterpunch.org/thermo11282006.html

Also, Dr Greening's papers:
on thermite: http://www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf
on sulfur: http://www.911myths.com/Sulfur.pdf

Thank you, Maccy...that's all I wanted

I'll read the hyperlinked text and get back to you....

If it doesn't pan out as a lie told by our government...we'll then move on to that pyroclastic thingamajig.

But thank you once more.

 

[david carmichael]

That's not what I recall from reading the newsbytes article.. it was a long time ago, but its not what I recall.


NOTE ON ANTISEMITISM:
On the USS Liberty thread, you're "intellectually outmatched" pro-Zionist shills have called in for reinforcements; to wit,

Pro-Zionist, Mike Weeks

and
Pro-Zionist, Theodore Bell


They will both tell you there is not an anti-semitic bone in my body...

...and they've BOTH known me alot longer than any of you.

.....and they'll both ALSO tell you that I don't "cheat"

No "cheating" with a doctored War Crimes Complaint and no "cheating" with me refusing to engage in "intellectual dishonesty"

 

[maccy]

Thank you, Maccy...that's all I wanted

I'll read the hyperlinked text and get back to you....

If it doesn't pan out as a lie told by our government...we'll then move on to that pyroclastic thingamajig.

But thank you once more.

No problems. Although it still strikes me as odd that you came to this board making claims about "intelligent thermite" proving something without knowing what "intelligent thermite" meant or who coined the phrase or why they did it.

As for pyroclastic flows I think you'll find that there are already threads about this subject in this forum. I suggest you post your thoughts in this thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70639

I also suggest you read the thread before posting.

This current thread is off topic enough without you moving onto a new subject. So, please don't post about pyroclastic anything here.

 

[Horatius]

Thank you, Maccy...that's all I wanted

I'll read the hyperlinked text and get back to you....

And that's what you would have gotten if you'd read the links in my post. Do try and pay attention to what people write, okay?

If it doesn't pan out as a lie told by our government...we'll then move on to that pyroclastic thingamajig.

But thank you once more.

And you do know that the whole "pyroclastic thingamjig" was another strawman dreamed up by the CTists, right? Don't expect us to go defending it.

 

[westprog]

Oh, no...old chum....

"intellectual dishonesty"... the CTs like me are saying, "why was the evidence seized and destroyed?"

No..we want the evidence...the evidence the government will not release...

...just as they seized the USS Liberty evidence... CRITTCOM transcripts...photographic evidence from crewmembers

This is one of the fallback positions. The material from 911 was extensively analysed. Obviously it wasn't all analysed. The cost involved in analysing every piece of debris from the collapse is unimaginable. It would probably cost more than rebuilding the towers. And it would not tell us anything. The sensible thing to do - and what is always done at a crime scene - is to sample randomly, and to carefully examine anything that seems anomalous.

The enormous amount of waste produced in the disaster had to be disposed of. It was never going to be kept in a museum for later reference. This is obvious for most people. The CT's see it as clear evidence of a cover up.

 

[westprog]

They were MOSSAD Agents.

The pro-Zionist FORWARD published it...

...

Is there anything remotely surprising in the idea that Israel would have spies in New York? Or that following 911, they would be picked up?

In the CT world, being present in New York proves that they were involved in planting the thermite in the WTC.

It's a way of thinking. The government LIED about something. So they must have LIED about 911. So it has to be a government plot.

 

[CurtC]

Logan's Law: The dumber the conspiracy guy, the smarter he thinks he is. This works with neocons as well.

There was a news story I heard ten or more years ago, that people tend to judge their own competence about the same, regardless of how competent they actually are. The problem is that the incompetent ones are incompetent at evaluating their competence.

 

[CurtC]

the seminal issue is whether that article is a true reproduction of what appeared in The Forward which WRH hyperlinked to.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[R.Mackey]

There was a news story I heard ten or more years ago, that people tend to judge their own competence about the same, regardless of how competent they actually are. The problem is that the incompetent ones are incompetent at evaluating their competence.

Indeed. Rather like how 85% of motorists consider their driving skills "above average."

Not on the roads I drive.... and certainly not the barnacles of humanity that come over here posting nonsense.