Obama's economic plan - Soak The Rich

Texas said:
Ok. Let's assume that 3 of the 5 are children and your < 40k salary. You have 5 dependents that translate to 17000 deduction right off the bat and assuming , a standard deduction of 10,900, but if you itemise then it is likely higher especially if you have a mortgage not to mention the fact that you more than likely qualify for the EITC for 2 of your kids, the bottom line is that you likely do not have any federal tax liability.
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Yes, we already agreed I had no federal tax liability. That was not a point under contention.

If you do not pay federal income taxes I don't get why you should be griping about anyone not paying enough taxes.
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Because thems that has it has to pay cause thems that don't can't.

You take 40%-60% of my income away and I'm under the poverty line.

40%-60% of his income and he can still live better than a solid majority of Americans.

Who can best afford to pay that tax?
 
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IchabodPlain said:
Careful, your envy is showing.

He didn't claim money was tight. He was describing his budgeting of expenses to compensate for his location and personal debt.
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My apologies for any inadvertent strawmanning. I should have said:

I don't begrudge him success in the least, but to hit the top 2% and then complain about not feeling rich .... no sympathy.
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Kevin_Lowe said:
What do you call "rich" then, and what percentage of people in the world qualify as "rich" by your private definition?
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Rich is not defined by salary. It is defined by wealth. When you have enough wealth to make 250k/ year in unearned income then you can call yourself "rich". Once you have that level of wealth you can live in an area that is not as expensive as NYC where a salary of 250K is almost required to live even a nominal middle class life. To do that it would take at least 3 million in investment income invested conservatively to get the 250K/ year in income.
 
quixotecoyote said:
Yes, we already agreed I had no federal tax liability. That was not a point under contention. :rolleyes:



Because thems that has it has to pay cause thems that don't can't.

You take 40%-60% of my income away and I'm under the poverty line.

40%-60% of his income and he can still live better than a solid majority of Americans.

Who can best afford to pay that tax? You tell me?
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From each according to his means to those according to their needs.
Karl Marx
 
Texas said:
From each according to his means to those according to their needs.
Karl Marx
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Noting that the lower income brackets cannot afford to pay the same percentages as high income brackets is not communism. It's acceptance of reality.
 
quixotecoyote said:
Noting that the lower income brackets cannot afford to pay the same percentages as high income brackets is not communism. It's acceptance of reality.
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No you are not paying federal income taxes yet you are griping that those that do are not paying enough. That is an immoral stance on your part.
 
Texas said:
No you are not paying federal income taxes yet you are griping that those that do are not paying enough. That is an immoral stance on your part.
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On what grounds? The fact that I do not pay a specific type and category of tax has no relevant moral connotations I can see.

I pay local taxes, state income taxes (albiet not a lot on those two), sales taxes, and FICA taxes. I see no reason why the fact that I don't owe federal income tax on top of those should exclude me from a conversation about the tax system.

eta: I just realized you said "no" to me saying poorer people can't afford as high a percentage of a tax as richer people. I want to hear you explain that one.
 
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Texas,

I hope you can keep up this standard: won't be easy *worries* :)
 
quixotecoyote said:
On what grounds? The fact that I do not pay a specific type and category of tax has no relevant moral connotations I can see.

I pay local taxes, state income taxes (albiet not a lot on those two), sales taxes, and FICA taxes. I see no reason why the fact that I don't owe federal income tax on top of those should exclude me from a conversation about the tax system.

eta:Although, as I said, please stop letting gdnp know how cushy I have it here in my secret tax haven, I'd hate to think he'd want to switch places.
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No all it shows is envy and greed. Once you have left the taxes to others you have forfeited your right to gripe about those that have made your exempt status possible.
 
Texas said:
No all it shows is envy and greed. Once you have left the taxes to others you have forfeited your right to gripe about those that have made your exempt status possible.
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Please explain how paying the taxes I named as is the same as not paying taxes.

Please explain why you disagree that poorer people can't afford as high a percentage of a tax as richer people.
 
quixotecoyote said:
Please explain how paying the taxes I named as is the same as not paying taxes.

Please explain why you disagree that poorer people can't afford as high a percentage of a tax as richer people.
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If you are paying 0% PLUS getting money via the EITC then you are benefiting from others directly paying you money that you did not earn. You are NOT PULLING YOUR WEIGHT and to top it off you are biting the hand that feeds you. I would think you would at least be a bit ashamed of that fact.
 
Texas said:
If you are paying 0% PLUS getting money via the EITC then you are benefiting from others directly paying you money that you did not earn. You are NOT PULLING YOUR WEIGHT and to top it off you are biting the hand that feeds you. I would think you would at least be a bit ashamed of that fact.
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That was gdnp trying to gain sympathy by waving his children around, not me.

I don't get the EITC.

In fact after local taxes & fees, local&state sales taxes, state income taxes, and FICA taxes, I end up paying more in taxes every year than I get refunded. As I said before.

So if you would, please explain why you disagree that poorer people can't afford as high a percentage of a tax as richer people.
 
Texas said:
No all it shows is envy and greed. Once you have left the taxes to others you have forfeited your right to gripe about those that have made your exempt status possible.
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You are right: you make it seem effortless :D
 
quixotecoyote said:
That was gdnp trying to gain sympathy by waving his children around, not me.

I don't get the EITC.

In fact after local taxes & fees, local&state sales taxes, state income taxes, and FICA taxes, I end up paying more in taxes every year than I get refunded. As I said before.

So if you would, please explain why you disagree that poorer people can't afford as high a percentage of a tax as richer people.
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So you have no federal tax liability other than Social security and state and local taxes so that gives you the right to gripe about those that have all of those PLUS Federal Income Taxes? Maybe having a family of 5 on <40k was not such a hot idea? It is your right to have as large a family as you wish, I have a family of 6, but I have never had the luxury of not paying the IRS every year for 55 years. For a person to have 40k a year in net income it would require a minimum of 60k just to make the cut if it was a couple with 2 kids. You get that PLUS EITC. A guy making 250k a year is paying, including the AMT, close to 70k on that income and everywhere other than the North East and the West Coast would have to be a top executive in a multi-national corp to pull down that salary. Sop whining, no one is going to make you pay taxes so it isn't your concern.
 
Texas said:
So you have no federal tax liability other than Social security and state and local taxes so that gives you the right to gripe about those that have all of those PLUS Federal Income Taxes? Maybe having a family of 5 on <40k was not such a hot idea? It is your right to have as large a family as you wish, I have a family of 6, but I have never had the luxury of not paying the IRS every year for 55 years. For a person to have 40k a year in net income it would require a minimum of 60k just to make the cut if it was a couple with 2 kids. You get that PLUS EITC. A guy making 250k a year is paying, including the AMT, close to 70k on that income and everywhere other than the North East and the West Coast would have to be a top executive in a multi-national corp to pull down that salary. Sop whining, no one is going to make you pay taxes so it isn't your concern.
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quixotecoyote said:
That was gdnp trying to gain sympathy by waving his children around, not me.

I don't get the EITC.
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But moving on..

I feel your dividing line is arbitrarily chosen to exclude me from debate. What is the special quality of federal income tax that allows participation in debate while other taxes do not?

So if you would, please explain why you disagree that poorer people can't afford as high a percentage of a tax as richer people.
 
Puppycow said:
I guess most of the tech employees in Silicon Valley must live in cardbord boxes then.
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No, they bunk up. Homes in 1999 (if you could find one) started under a million for cracker boxes. Most tech workers either shared apartments or houses. Sometimes 3-4 tech workers would go in together to buy a house in the valley. There were affordable apartments in the valley back then (1.2k) with one bedroom and small bath w/ kitchette. A friend of mine had one such apartment that was part of a days inn that was remade into apartments.
 
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