Obama prepares order on guns

Cleon said:
JFC. No.

When I buy a gun online, I go to a site like AIM, pay with my credit card, and the gun gets shipped to my gun club, who calls me, I come in, they do a background check, and I get my gun.

On Armslist, Person A posts an ad that says "I have a gun for sale." Person B contacts Person A, they make arrangement to meet and trade money for gun. It's no different than if Person A put the ad in a newspaper.
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This.


Before Colorado made a universal background check law I sold a gun on Armslist. I exchanged text messages with the buyer one evening, then the next day met at a public place (Burger King parking lot, halfway between us) and conducted business in my minivan. The transaction was no different than selling a car through the newspaper classifieds, other than the lack of paperwork required to get license plates. Of course, it also had a significant overlap of characteristic features with a drug deal. Which is why I had a gun handy should the guys I suspect were gang members have gotten silly ideas. I'd feel a little bit bad about selling suspected gangsters a concealed-carry piece, but it was an IO Hellcat (badly designed, unreliable, prone to jamming). In the long run I apply Palliative Delusion Systems - I tell myself I performed a law enforcement action by preventing a future shooting.
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
This.


Before Colorado made a universal background check law I sold a gun on Armslist. I exchanged text messages with the buyer one evening, then the next day met at a public place (Burger King parking lot, halfway between us) and conducted business in my minivan. The transaction was no different than selling a car through the newspaper classifieds, other than the lack of paperwork required to get license plates. Of course, it also had a significant overlap of characteristic features with a drug deal. Which is why I had a gun handy should the guys I suspect were gang members have gotten silly ideas. I'd feel a little bit bad about selling suspected gangsters a concealed-carry piece, but it was an IO Hellcat (badly designed, unreliable, prone to jamming). In the long run I apply Palliative Delusion Systems - I tell myself I performed a law enforcement action by preventing a future shooting.
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I've actually done it both ways. My first two guns I got from a guy on Armslist, the rest I bought online.

I wouldn't have much problem with requiring BG checks for private sales; go inside, pay the gun club (or police station) a small fee, verify that I'm not a terrorist/serial killer/Kardashian, then go about our business.
 
In Colorado buyer and seller can go to any licensed gun dealer to file the 4473. EZ Pawn now has a countertop terminal dedicated to this task, presumably cheaper in the long run than taking an hour of employee time to put ten bucks in the till. It seems to be working, and I haven't come across any stories of "sting" buys to catch offenders. But sting buying to catch illegal sellers is realistically the only enforcement mechanism. If I wanted to sell my brother a pistol I might or might not bother doing it legally and nobody would ever know.
 
Cleon said:
JFC. No.

When I buy a gun online, I go to a site like AIM, pay with my credit card, and the gun gets shipped to my gun club, who calls me, I come in, they do a background check, and I get my gun.

On Armslist, Person A posts an ad that says "I have a gun for sale." Person B contacts Person A, they make arrangement to meet and trade money for gun. It's no different than if Person A put the ad in a newspaper.
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Still quibbling.
 
When anyone says "buy a gun online" the only reference point most people have is the time they bought a toaster from amazon. Just click, click and pow, there's a toaster on your front porch two days later. That's not how "online gun sales" work. No online firearms seller can legally ship a gun to your house.

(Except the CMP maybe?)
 
BobTheCoward said:
You have it backwards. We have a right to be armed because we have a right to life. Removing guns in The name of the community is to deny a person a right to defend their life while members of the community get to maintain it. It is servitude.
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You are assuming having a gun is the only way to defend yourself or even it is the best way to defend yourself and your community.

You are assuming I want to remove guns from decent law abiding citizens. I don't, I just want them off unsuitable people who do not respect any rights.

Failing to understand that the majority of people from all opinions want guns off the bad guys is a major reason why the USA cannot get to grips dealing with the problem.
 
Cleon said:
They actually can, provided you either have an FFL or a C&R (Curio & Relic) license from the ATF.
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Sure but the former aren't the average Joe off the street and the latter aren't trading in what criminals or mass shooters are looking for. So a couple of narrow exceptions that don't do anything to help the aspiring liquor store bandit.

But now maybe Obama will executively action everyone into getting an FFL.
 
BadBoy said:
I think, if the USA sorted out their Gun infatuation and developed a caring universal health care system which they could well afford, and became a little (lot) less religious, it could be one of the best places to live in the world.
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I've traveled to Europe and Asia; in my completely biased opinion the USA is the best place in the world to live right now.

Ranb
 
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Gawdzilla Sama said:
Quibble noted.
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Let's say the country uses the WA version of universal bkgd checks and requires an FFL be involved anytime an unlicensed person (with a few exceptions) touches a gun. Do you think sites like Armslist and Gunbroker will go away? Of course not. The only non-criminal element that will be affected are those who want to do private sales in the same state.

The rest will continue to obey the law and use an FFL or break the law by not doing so. Shopping on the internet is just a higher tech easier version of using the daily newspaper. If the WA version of bkgd checks is adopted, then the authorities will just have to decide if they are willing to prosecute the offenders.

Past history of the police refusing to do so for those (thousands each years claimed by some) who lie on the 4473 when obtaining the NICS check and as shown at a right to carry rally in Olympia a few years ago tells me that requiring bkgd checks for private sales will do little or nothing to prevent crime unless we fix the police.

Ranb
 
HenryLee said:
So Obama just made it easier to buy machine guns. Heckuva job Bammy. It's almost like he doesn't know what he's doing.
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No, Obama appears to have changed a federal regulation to stop the police from discriminating against their residents based upon any criteria they choose. Were you actually in favor of the police approving applications for whites but not blacks? Or to their friends and not others? While I can't prove that any certain CLEO was behaving in this manner, the most common complaints that law abiding persons make when attempting to buy NFA firearms (least associated in crime) was that the CLEO refused to sign, charged a fee, or requested a "donation" prior to doing so.

Obama just eliminated a common form of corruption with his EO. He also changed the regs to require more identification for trustees and corporate officers who own NFA firearms. In other words it just got more expensive for me to apply for a tax stamp. Now I have to supply photographs and fingerprints the next time I apply to make an NFA firearm

So, what do you have against registered legally possessed machine guns? Any evidence that they are ever involved in any violent crime? I know of one case.

Ranb
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
In the long run I apply Palliative Delusion Systems - I tell myself I performed a law enforcement action by preventing a future shooting.
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When I've sold a gun now and then in WA I asked for their WA driver's license and their CPL, proof of a bkgd check. Should make everyone happy right? But no, it seems that only an FFL who is vetted by the feds every three years can be trusted to do so now in WA. I'm vetted up to twice a year by the feds but am now unworthy of determining if a person can own a gun.

Ranb
 
Nessie said:
You are assuming having a gun is the only way to defend yourself or even it is the best way to defend yourself and your community.
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I assume nothing of the sort. I am saying a person has a right to answer that question only for themselves until they harm another.
 
Shipping a handgun has very strict rules, both in the law and under UPS and FEDEX policy.

Basically, the post office won't ship any modern handgun. They have to go UPS/FEDEX air.

Shipping a long gun has rules too.

The idea that you can just "ship a gun" like Amazon ships a toaster, is way off of reality.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

http://www.fedex.com/us/freight/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier
 
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Ranb said:
No, Obama appears to have changed a federal regulation to stop the police from discriminating against their residents based upon any criteria they choose. Were you actually in favor of the police approving applications for whites but not blacks? Or to their friends and not others? While I can't prove that any certain CLEO was behaving in this manner, the most common complaints that law abiding persons make when attempting to buy NFA firearms (least associated in crime) was that the CLEO refused to sign, charged a fee, or requested a "donation" prior to doing so.

Obama just eliminated a common form of corruption with his EO. He also changed the regs to require more identification for trustees and corporate officers who own NFA firearms. In other words it just got more expensive for me to apply for a tax stamp. Now I have to supply photographs and fingerprints the next time I apply to make an NFA firearm

So, what do you have against registered legally possessed machine guns? Any evidence that they are ever involved in any violent crime? I know of one case.

Ranb
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Now listen!

You can't just go around claiming that Obama did something reasonable and generally helpful for legitimate gun owners.

It doesn't fit the narrative. You're going to get people all confused who otherwise understand that no matter what Obama does it is bad.

You're going to have to find some way to spin this so that Obama looks evil.
 
Don't worry, there is enough evil in this EO for all of us. For people like HenryLee there is the fact that Obama dropped the hammer on bigoted sheriffs in the US who want to enforce their own kind of gun control; I'm sure they hate that.

For others it is the fact that; "He also changed the regs to require more identification for trustees and corporate officers who own NFA firearms. In other words it just got more expensive for me to apply for a tax stamp. Now I have to supply photographs and fingerprints the next time I apply to make an NFA firearm."

Go to some gun forums to see the butt-hurt on that one. I admit I don't like having to pay for fingerprints to enjoy a civil right, but the world is about compromise.

In fact this is one of those times when a compromise is just that. We (trustees) got the additional burden of prints/photos but individuals got the elimination of the CLEO signature. A true compromise compared to the "we compromised by taking away fewer guns this time" crap.

Instead of obtaining the CLEO signature, now we trustees and individuals have to send a copy of the application to the CLEO. Sort of like the licensed Curio & Relic collectors are required to do. This will allow the police to maintain their own registry of NFA firearms in the county or city. Yes, this chaps my ass.

Ranb
 
a_unique_person said:
If everyone agrees that Obamas actions won't really do anything, why all the hysteria from the gun lobby and runs on guns and ammo?
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Last time I was at Cabela's a week ago the shelves were fully stocked - even .22 long rifle and pistol powder. There is no run, a few years ago all the shelves were empty. That was a run!

I think all the paranoid types bought so much last time even they don't need any more.
 
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