Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[beachnut]

Come on, BAC, you laughed. Admit it.

Some people can figure out 911, but not a birth certificate.

 

[Juniversal]

Orly does it again



http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_17976305?nclick_check=1

*face palm* The certificate numbering is odd but i'm sure it has a fairly innocuous explanation. If you find another Hawaiian birth certificate with the same number THEN we have a problem. Also the typing IS aligned. She's simply wrong about the alignment. And the green background is there becuase...*gasp*...they printed the scan of the birth certificate on new security paper. Orly seems to have failed her critical thinking class. Epic blonde moments.

 

[randman]

Took them 3 years just to fabricate a birth certificate.....no wonder this administration is such a disaster....

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

... *sigh*

 

[Alferd_Packer]

*face palm* The certificate numbering is odd but i'm sure it has a fairly innocuous explanation.

Easy the forms were pre-numbered in a stack at the Hospital.

Note that both mothers, (Dunham and Nordyke) signed the forms on August 7.

The forms were not submitted to the DOH untill after the doctor signed it.

What is interesting is that in both cases, the doctor's signature and the date that they were accepted at the DOH are the same. I wonder if the doctor's didn't hand carry them to the DOH and sign them there as they turned them in.

 

[A'isha]

*face palm* The certificate numbering is odd but i'm sure it has a fairly innocuous explanation. If you find another Hawaiian birth certificate with the same number THEN we have a problem. Also the typing IS aligned. She's simply wrong about the alignment. And the green background is there becuase...*gasp*...they printed the scan of the birth certificate on new security paper. Orly seems to have failed her critical thinking class. Epic blonde moments.

Birth certificate numbering wasn't chronological. When CNN accompanied Stig Weidelich to get a copy of his certificate, his was numbered 61-10920, more than 280 numbers higher than Obama's certificate (born August 4, 1961) and the Nordyke's certificates (both born August 5, 1961).

The Stig was also born August 5, 1961. The certificate numbers were almost certainly assigned alphabetically by batch, not chronologically.

So much for Orly and randman's hopes for an anomalous Obama certification number.

 

[Juniversal]

Easy the forms were pre-numbered in a stack at the Hospital.

Note that both mothers, (Dunham and Nordyke) signed the forms on August 7.

The forms were not submitted to the DOH untill after the doctor signed it.

What is interesting is that in both cases, the doctor's signature and the date that they were accepted at the DOH are the same. I wonder if the doctor's didn't hand carry them to the DOH and sign them there as they turned them in.

Birth certificate numbering wasn't chronological. When CNN accompanied Stig Weidelich to get a copy of his certificate, his was numbered 61-10920, more than 280 numbers higher than Obama's certificate (born August 4, 1961) and the Nordyke's certificates (both born August 5, 1961).

The Stig was also born August 5, 1961. The certificate numbers were almost certainly assigned alphabetically by batch, not chronologically.

So much for Orly and randman's hopes for an anomalous Obama certification number.

Thanks for the responses. As I expected a perfectly innocuous explanation.

 

[A'isha]

Jesus Christ, Jerome Corsi is a moron. Apparently scrambling in the wake of his latest book's very title being suddenly rendered irrelevant by Obama's release of his long form weeks before the book even hit store shelves, Corsi's latest article on the subject has been posted by that bastion of birther idiocy, World Net Daily.

In it, Corsi compares Obama's long form to the "authenticated" (in Corsi's own words) Nordyke long form from 1966. And man, is it full of pure, refined FAIL.

Let me just hit the high points of just how much of a fool Corsi makes of himself in this article.

* The Nordyke twins' birth certificate at the bottom have the printed signature of the director of health and the registrar general, along with the date the copies were issued, "5-5-1966," while the Obama birth certificate has no similar official designations indicating the date on which the copy was issued or that the copy was certified by the director of health and the registrar general to be a "true and correct copy" of the original record on file in the Research, Planning and Statistics Office of the Hawaii State Department of Health.

[...]

Still, it remains remarkable that the Hawaii Department of Health and the White House released the Obama birth certificate without the type of authenticating information that appears at the bottom of the Nordyke twins' birth certificates.

As proof of this, Corsi shows the following images:

And, indeed, Obama's certificate as pictured in the article doesn't have the registrar's date and stamp. Except there's one teeny, tiny problem for Corsi.

He's using a cropped image of Obama's certificate that cuts off that date and stamp. The actual released certificate has that information that Corsi says doesn't exist on it.

See?

And since the image of Obama's certificate in Corsi's article is actually a clickable link directly to the PDF hosted on whitehouse.gov, where the registrar's date and stamp is clearly visible, Corsi is either deliberately lying, or is such an incompetent idiot that he's actually trying to determine the authenticity of Obama's certificate by looking at a cropped jpg of it!

Almost as big of a slice of fail is when Corsi says this:

After Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie dismissed Dr. Neil Palafox from being appointed director of health, there may have been no one heading the Hawaiian Department of Health to sign off on the authenticity of the Obama birth document

First of all, as seen above, someone (namely, long-serving registrar Alvin T. Onaka) did sign off on the authenticity of the document. Not only that, though, but the Hawaii Department of Health website regarding Obama's birth information contains not just a link directly to the whitehouse.gov PDF, but also has a press release saying "Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies." It also has copies of the correspondence between Obama and Director Fuddy also saying she "witnessed the copying of the certificate and attest to the authenticity of these copies."

Corsi continues his litany of fail by saying the following:

The SmokingGun.com website notes several additional irregularities with the Obama birth certificate that do not appear on the Nordyke twin's birth certificates:

* In Box 3, "This Birth," there are two "Xs" above "Twin" and "Triplet" – why are these "Xs" here and what do they signify?

[...]

* What is the significance of the numbers, seen vertically, on the right side of the Obama birth certificate?

These "irregularities" are taken, almost word-for-word, from a list on the Smoking Gun at the link given (which is in Corsi's article, not added by me).

And what does that very Smoking Gun page say about the list?

This morning’s White House release of President Barack Obama’s long form birth certificate will, of course, do little to derail the “birther” movement, which will now analyze the document with the kind of verve previously directed toward those Texas Air National Guard memos faxed to CBS from that Kinko’s in Abilene.

So here’s a few nutty points about the birth certificate sure to be seized upon by the nonbelievers:

Yes, that's right. It's a satirical article, mocking birthers like Corsi! Nice work proving it right, Jerome.

Even aside from that, Corsi's wrong. The pencil marks do indeed appear on the Nordyke certificate. There are 2's in the "Sex" and "This Birth" fields on Gretchen Nordyke's certificate, as well as a 9 or a in the "Birthplace" field and what looks like zeroes in the "Type of Occupation Outside Home During Pregnancy" and "Date Last Worked" fields, as well as some other marks in other fields.

Those same kind of pencil marks, as well as X's above the check boxes in the "This Birth" field, also appear in this certificate posted by a blogger back in June of 2008:

(spoiler-blocked because it's a large image)

Lastly, Corsi mentions the "considerable Internet discussion" (his words again) that the name of Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital was different back in 1961, as if that also makes Obama's long form suspicious, despite explicitly noting that the same name appears on the Nordyke certificate that he accepts as fully authentic. Why even mention random Internet discussion doubting a fact he fully knows is true?!

Jerome Corsi is a joke. Why anyone believes his nonsense is beyond me. Why anyone thinks World Net Daily is anything more than a pathetic source of poorly-told lies for repeating (and publishing in book form) Corsi's nonsense is an even bigger mystery to me.

No less than five separate times on WND, Corsi wondered why Obama wasn't releasing a long-form certificate that "would put to rest all of the questions."

He was a liar then, and he's a liar still.

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

This Birther idiocy will cost the Republicans the 2012 presidential election.
They have no substance to run on, and cite Sarah Pailin and Donald Trump as their intellectuals...Their anti intellectualism will be their downfall.

 

[Joey McGee]

Jerome Corsi is a joke. Why anyone believes his nonsense is beyond me. Why anyone thinks World Net Daily is anything more than a pathetic source of poorly-told lies for repeating (and publishing in book form) Corsi's nonsense is an even bigger mystery to me.

I'll solve that WorldNutDaily mystery for you. The truth can't handle Chuck Norris (also a birther)

A perfect post, send a link to Jerome.

 

[Lurker]

You know, just to give a little perspective on the research powers of Jerome Corsi here are a few other items that he supports (from his Wiki bio):

1. Plans for a North American Government,
2. Promoting the Abiogenic theory of the origin of oil (arguing that oil is produced from chemical reactions in the Earth, in contrast to the general consensus of the scientific community that oil is produced from organic materials, such as zooplankton and algae)
3. Alleged United States support of Iran in its attempts to develop nuclear weapons.

Abiogenic oil? Really? I guess the thousands of PhD geologists and petroleum engineers that have been working for the oil industry over the last century are complete and utter idiots.

Wow!

 

[Paul]

Ssshhh! Nobody mention there are already twice as many North American Governments as he thinks.

 

[A'isha]

Wow, just when I thought the epic fail that is Jerome Corsi's article above couldn't be topped, along WND comes to do just that.

Apparently not satisfied with the devastating blow to the credibility that they never had in the first place that is Corsi's sack of stupid, Joseph Farah's house of lies and more lies publishes this "exclusive commentary" from Pam Geller.

I guess the debunked de Vattelist nonsense wasn't crackpotty enough for Geller, since her new claim is that Obama is not a natural born citizen because his parents' marriage wasn't valid, thus making him illegitimate. Because, according to her, the Founding Fathers intended illegitimate children to have different rights under the Constitution.

This is so massively stupid as to almost not require any debunking at all. Fortunately, Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs held his nose long enough to do just that.

But believe it or not, that's not even the stupidest part of Geller's roiling mass of fail. Because later in the same "exclusive commentary", she says:

If Obama had this "long form" document all along, why didn't he release it when the controversy first began? Back in June and July of 2008, I broke the story of how the first birth document Obama produced, the Certification of Live Birth that he posted to his farcically titled blog, "Fight the Smears," was an altered document. This was demonstrated by a digital forensic examination specialist, an active member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, the American College of Forensic Examiners, the International Society of Forensic Computer Examiners, the International Information Systems Forensics Association – the list goes on. He was also board certified as a forensic computer examiner, a certificated legal investigator and a licensed private investigator. He had been performing computer-based forensic investigations since 1993 (although back then it did not even have a formal name yet), and he had performed countless investigations since then.

He submitted his findings to my website, AtlasShrugs.com. We welcomed peer review. No one would touch the story. I said then, as I say now, that I have no idea what is on Obama's genuine long form, but it is mighty peculiar that a president of the United States would hold out so long, refuse to release it for so long and then finally release such a questionable document. I mean, really.

The link there is exactly how it appears and where it links to in Geller's "commentary". And if you click it, you'll see that Geller's "specialist" with the impressive credentials is "techdude".

In case you don't remember "techdude", he was an anonymous person who posted an "analysis" of Obama's short-form certificate, even going so far as to claim the certificate was really Maya Soetoro's (Obama's half-sister) certificate, altered to be Obama's.

A month to the day after Geller published "techdude's" first load of crap (and only two weeks after the "final report" Geller links to in her WND "commentary"), actual researchers not only debunked "techdude's" nonsense, but found that he'd stolen his impressive credentials from someone else.

Four days after the blogger at the above link posted that he'd heard from the person "techdude" had stolen his resume from, "techdude" disappeared from the scene, never to be heard from again. Nobody but Geller cites him or his "research" now.

Even people who think that Obama's short-form certificate was forged were calling "techdude" a fraud!

And yet, here we are, May 5, 2011, and Gellar is still citing "techdude". AND WORLD NET DAILY IS PUBLISHING THAT AS "EXCLUSIVE COMMENTARY"!!

Let me re-iterate that. World Net Daily is publishing, as an "exclusive commentary", the words of a woman who reposted Ulsterman's nonsense about a "coup" against Obama during the Bin Laden mission, and letting her cite claims that were debunked and forgotten three years ago.

There aren't enough facepalms in the world for this.

 

[NotJesus]

Not to mention that Obama clearly didn't have the long form all along, as she stupidly suggests.

 

[I Am The Scum]

ANTPogo, I find your coverage of all these details to be continually fascinating (though I would cut down on the "fail" language; that's so last decade). The perspective you offer really sheds light on the emotional involvement and anti-Obama bias that one must engage in to believe this conspiracy.

 

[A'isha]

ANTPogo, I find your coverage of all these details to be continually fascinating (though I would cut down on the "fail" language; that's so last decade). The perspective you offer really sheds light on the emotional involvement and anti-Obama bias that one must engage in to believe this conspiracy.

Thank you.

Though I do confess to an inordinate fondness for the term "fail". It's simultaneously so succinct, and yet so rich in nuance.

But I shall endeavor to use other synonyms from here on out.

 

[Juniversal]

I guess the debunked de Vattelist nonsense wasn't crackpotty enough for Geller, since her new claim is that Obama is not a natural born citizen because his parents' marriage wasn't valid, thus making him illegitimate. Because, according to her, the Founding Fathers intended illegitimate children have to different rights under the Constitution.

Talk about moving the goal post. These people are as nutty as squirrel . In the birther world you can create your own interpretation of laws that have no basis in reality as long as in the end it would deem Obama's Presidency illegitimate.

 

[Arus808]

ANT - thanks for covering the stars from the loony bin known as birthers. been on vacay to my home state for the last week, and a lot has happened in the week...

crazy is as crazy does.

 

[headscratcher4]

Some indication, however, that Birther belief has plummeted in polling... maybe fact-based reality isn't in danger afterall... I know, it is too soon.

 

[Juniversal]

ANTPogo, I find your coverage of all these details to be continually fascinating (though I would cut down on the "fail" language; that's so last decade). The perspective you offer really sheds light on the emotional involvement and anti-Obama bias that one must engage in to believe this conspiracy.

Maybe "so last year". So last decade is a stretch to say the least lol. But doesn't bother me (didn't notice myself). Keep up the good work ANTpogo.

While i'm at it i'll thank Arus808 for her continued good work in this thread.