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Obama and Dems to go it alone on health-care reform, if GOP refuses to compromise

What? Use reconciliation? It's been used 20-some times since 1980. It was used 5 times during the Bush administration. 6 times under Clinton.

Is there a history of serious repercussions for the party using reconciliation to pass legislation?
Has it ever been used for such a monumental or expensive bill?

The health bills in Congress are terrible by any standard. They should die, and a bill that actually makes sense should be drafted.
 
the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts.

"The Congressional Budget Office estimated that the tax cuts would increase budget deficits by $60 billion in 2003 and by $340 billion by 2008."

That is not an expensive bill. It is a bill that causes a deficit because it collects A LOT LESS TAXES, not because it ENORMOUSLY INCREASES GOVERNMENT SPENDING. The tax cut bill might be many things, but "expensive" it isn't. There is something curious about calling a bill that cuts taxes "expensive".
 
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btw parky, what is it that you like about this bill?

pretty much all of it.

though, I would like a provision stating that if you do not get health insurance, the $3,500 yearly penalty you pay will go into the Medicare fund, since that is where the money will come from to pay for your treatment if you get sick and go broke.
 
And Obama will have saved his legacy.

The Obama Legacy: government ownership, management, and control of the means of automotive production and banking, and the distribution and exchange of medical goods and services...
 
The Obama Legacy: government ownership, management, and control of the means of automotive production and banking, and the distribution and exchange of medical goods and services...

I guess you would have preferred we let GM go under and put 50,000 Americans out of work.

I guess you would have preferred we let the banks go under, pushing the USA into a major Depression.

nice. very patriotic.
 
That is not an expensive bill. It is a bill that causes a deficit because it collects A LOT LESS TAXES, not because it ENORMOUSLY INCREASES GOVERNMENT SPENDING. The tax cut bill might be many things, but "expensive" it isn't. There is something curious about calling a bill that cuts taxes "expensive".

Not really sure what specific word you would use for a policy which reduces revenues, or even if there is one. There are lots of words for policies that spend more money then necessary, but I am just drawing a blank on this one. Conservatives have been able to go pretty far on this semantic shortcoming.
 
pretty much all of it.
Really? The Louisiana purchase? The Nebraska bribe? The concessions to unions? The giveaways to big pharma? Doing nothing about medical costs?

though, I would like a provision stating that if you do not get health insurance, the $3,500 yearly penalty you pay will go into the Medicare fund, since that is where the money will come from to pay for your treatment if you get sick and go broke.
That's a fools errand. A dollar is a dollar is a dollar. Once it's collected it matters not where it came from or where it goes.
 
Has it ever been used for such a monumental or expensive bill?
Expensive? Debatable. Monumental? Absolutely.

Even monumental bills that were directly related to health care.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1985

And...
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3059
Some critics have charged that using reconciliation to enact a major change in policy, such as health reform, would be unprecedented and would represent a gross misuse of the process. A review of the past use of reconciliation demonstrates, however, that this charge is incorrect:

* Congress has employed reconciliation many times to make major policy shifts. These include sweeping welfare reform enacted in 1996, massive tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, and creation or expansion of several health coverage programs. Using reconciliation to help enact health reform would be consistent with past congressional practice, as Thomas Mann and Molly Reynolds of the Brookings Institution and Norman Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute have explained. [1]
* The sharp break with past practice took place in 2001, when Congress used reconciliation to enact a large tax cut that greatly increased federal deficits and debt. Prior to 2001, every major reconciliation bill enacted into law reduced the deficit. In 2003 Congress used reconciliation to pass another round of deficit-increasing tax cuts.
* If health reform is enacted in part through use of the reconciliation process, the reconciliation legislation will have to be designed so it does not add to the deficit. In 2007, the House and Senate adopted rules preventing Congress from using reconciliation to increase deficits and debt as was done in 2001 and 2003.
* Since rising health costs are the single largest reason for projected long-run deficits, it is appropriate that health reform be considered through the reconciliation process.
 
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I guess you would have preferred we let GM go under and put 50,000 Americans out of work.

I guess you would have preferred we let the banks go under, pushing the USA into a major Depression.

nice. very patriotic.

The howling we get from dems and liberals when republicans and conservatives spew crap like this is enough drown out Joshuas horns.
 
That is not an expensive bill. It is a bill that causes a deficit because it collects A LOT LESS TAXES, not because it ENORMOUSLY INCREASES GOVERNMENT SPENDING. The tax cut bill might be many things, but "expensive" it isn't. There is something curious about calling a bill that cuts taxes "expensive".

Depends how much and what kind of a deficit hawk you are.
 
the Dems will be able to run on their achievements. The GOP will NOT be able to run on their ability to stop the Dems.

I love it. :)
Even attempting that "achievement" cost the Dems a seat in Massachusetts. Especially the blue dogs, and as Brown's election showed even Dems from liberal districts should be careful.

I predict the Dems will let this one fade away after it become clear the votes aren't there.
 
You can't be serious... COBRA? Really? You're really going to call that comparable to this monster?
If it's done under budget reconciliation, the legislation can't add to the deficit. The only time that was done for a bill that wasn't paid for was for the giant tax cuts in 2001.
 
I guess you would have preferred we let GM go under and put 50,000 Americans out of work.

I guess you would have preferred we let the banks go under, pushing the USA into a major Depression.

nice. very patriotic.

I would have preferred as less socialist solution.

Lets wait and see if the Government makes any attempt to divest itself from these interests if/when GM, Chrysler, and the banks regain their strength...

I'll choose to ignore the Ad Hom. One hopes you treat veterans you meet face-to-face more cordially...
 

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