Norman Minetta

[stundie]

Stundie

Mintetta's testimony was in contrast to Asst Chief of Staff Joshua Boltan's testimony, the Secret Service, Reagan National Airport's ATC, the FAA, VP Cheney's, Mrs Cheney, Richard Clarke's, Sec. Rumsfeld, NSA Condoleeza Rice, Sec. of Justice Ashcroft and several other people.

For a start VP Cheney NEVER testified to the commission!

Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon, so god knows who he can refute anything Mineta said seeing as he wasn't there. I'd love to hear how Rumsfelds statement contradicts Mineta! Or is this an assumption??

So why do you not explain how Reagan National Airports ATC, the FAA, Rice, Boltan, Ashcrofts and several other peoples account dismiss Minetas? Just saying so doesn't make it so?

Please explain to me why the 9/11 commission after hearing Minetta's tesimony decided he was wrong and went with everyone else's testimony.

As the 9/11 Commission ever given details on why they ignored Minetas testimony?? Would love to hear from who....and more importantly why??

Could it be Mintteta was wrong on his time frame? Could it be because Minetta said he could be wrong and was unsure?

Of course Mineta could be wrong, but couldn't other people be wrong too!

Like everyone else on this post, you have not stated why he is wrong, other than he just is. Don't tell me too look through the threads, because I have and yet still no one can explain it.

I'll await for an EXPLANTATION from anyone as to why Minetas testimony was either wrong, or if they can prove that he got the times wrong!

 

[Cylinder]

I'll await for an EXPLANTATION from anyone as to why Minetas testimony was either wrong, or if they can prove that he got the times wrong!

In his testimony to the Commission, Sec. Minetta claims that the scene involving the distances call-outs occurred after Pres. Bush had departed Sarasota, FL aboard Air Force One. He claims that departure occured between 0920 and 0926. In fact, Pres. Bush left Sarasota for what ended up being Barksdale AFB, LA at 0957. Four minutes after Minetta's timeline allows - at 0930 - Pres. Bush held an impromptu live press conference from Emma E. Booker Elementary School in which he addressed the attacks.

 

[stundie]

What time do you claim that Pres. Bush left Sarasota, FL aboard Air Force One?

Please do not sidetrack from the subject. As I keep getting sidetrack with OTHER questions and want to keep this thread on the facts.


(After 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Secret Service Finally Rushes Bush Out of School Kevin Down, a Sarasota police officer, recalls that immediately after President Bush’s speech concludes, “The Secret Service agent [runs] out from the school and [says] We’re under terrorist attack, we have to go now.” [BBC, 9/1/2002] http://web.archive.org/web/20040701...o.za/CarteBlanche/Display/Display.asp?Id=2063
The motorcade departs a few minutes later.


9:43 a.m. September 11, 2001: Bush Learns of Attack on Pentagon as Motorcade Reaches Sarasota Airport!

President Bush’s motorcade arrives at Sarasota’s airport and pulls up close to Air Force One. As the motorcade nears the airport, he learns a plane has hit the Pentagon. Bush immediately boards the plane. [Washington Times, 10/8/2002; Daily Telegraph, 12/16/2001] Congressman Dan Miller and others hurry up the rear steps of the plane while Bush enters through the exposed front stairs. Bush pauses in the doorway to wave to photographers. The St. Petersburg Times notes this raises “further questions about security [on 9/11].” [St. Petersburg Times, 7/4/2004] Security then does an extra-thorough search of all the baggage of the other passengers, delaying takeoff until 9:55 a.m. [St. Petersburg Times, 9/8/2002]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&startpos=1500


The question is whether Minetas testimony is truthful, which it appears to be!

 

[stundie]

In his testimony to the Commission, Sec. Minetta claims that the scene involving the distances call-outs occurred after Pres. Bush had departed Sarasota, FL aboard Air Force One. He claims that departure occured between 0920 and 0926.

So Mineta is out by a few minutes, still doesn't explain how the rest of his testimony is wrong?

In fact, Pres. Bush left Sarasota for what ended up being Barksdale AFB, LA at 0957. Four minutes after Minetta's timeline allows - at 0930 - Pres. Bush held an impromptu live press conference from Emma E. Booker Elementary School in which he addressed the attacks.

You are wrong, Bush had left the school at 9:30 and arrived at Sarasota at 9:42 and arrived. See previous post!


Air Force One turns toward a new destination of Barksdale Air Force Base, near Shreveport, Louisiana, in response to a decision that Bush should not go directly to Washington. [CBS News, 9/11/2002; Washington Post, 1/27/2002]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42754-2002Jan26.html

11:45 a.m. September 11, 2001: Air Force One Lands at Louisiana Air Force Base.

Air Force One lands at Barksdale Air Force Base near Shreveport, Louisiana. “The official reason for landing at Barksdale was that President Bush felt it necessary to make a further statement, but it isn’t unreasonable to assume that—as there was no agreement as to what the president’s movements should be—it was felt he might as well be on the ground as in the air.” [Salon, 9/12/2001; New York Times, 9/16/2001; Daily Telegraph, 12/16/2001; CBS News, 9/11/2002] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/16/wbush16.xml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/16/wbush16.xml


The lies you Skeptics spread are getting more and more desperate!

 

[Cylinder]

You are wrong, Bush had left the school at 9:30 and arrived at Sarasota at 9:42 and arrived. See previous post!

Your own post states that Bush left Booker Elementary after 0930. I suggest you re-read that part:

(After 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Secret Service Finally Rushes Bush Out of School Kevin Down, a Sarasota police officer, recalls that immediately after President Bush’s speech concludes, “The Secret Service agent [runs] out from the school and [says] We’re under terrorist attack, we have to go now.” [BBC, 9/1/2002]

Emphasis is mine.

 

[Gravy]

Gravy....This was not just any day....19 months ago,

Reading comprehension class continues. My hypothetical situation began, "But suppose you were certain of the time of day of an event 19 months ago." My argument is that "certainty" based on memory is subjective and is not a guarantee of accuracy.

Yes I know the mind can distort etc....but again you have still not provided any proof that Minetas testimony is inaccurate...other the conclusions you guys have come too.

False. Until you decide to read the relevant sections of the Commission report, which we've repeatedly asked you to do, I see no point in attempting further discussion with you. You are being willfully ignorant with nearly every post you make.

 

[stundie]

In fact, Pres. Bush left Sarasota for what ended up being Barksdale AFB, LA at 0957. .

He arrived at Barksdale for 11:45am.

Four minutes after Minetta's timeline allows - at 0930 - Pres. Bush held an impromptu live press conference from Emma E. Booker Elementary School in which he addressed the attacks.

Bush had finished the press conference @ 9:30 and was on his way too Sarasota.

So emphasis is mine and you are still wrong. Yet your ignorance has still failed to answer my question?

So Cylinder, Mineta is out by a few minutes.

So I'll ask you again and wait for an answer instead of your fly by comments. How and why is the rest of Minetas testimony wrong?

 

[stundie]

Reading comprehension class continues. My hypothetical situation began, "But suppose you were certain of the time of day of an event 19 months ago." My argument is that "certainty" based on memory is subjective and is not a guarantee of accuracy.

You keep going on about reading classes, yet fail to produce any SPECIFIC EVIDENCE?? Of course certainy is subjective and not a guarantee of accuracy, but what has this got to do with Mineta testimony? and if testimony is subjective and not a guarantee of accuracy, then how do we establish that anyone elses testimony is accurate? You continue too clutch at straws here Gravy!

False. Until you decide to read the relevant sections of the Commission report, which we've repeatedly asked you to do, I see no point in attempting further discussion with you. You are being willfully ignorant with nearly every post you make.

I have READ all the relevant sections, so instead of making schoolboy comments, why don't you emlight me. You keep telling me I need reading lessons, so educate me with your wisdon, because you have failed to do so in plenty of other posts.

I'll await proof!

 

[Mashuna]

Of course certainy is subjective and not a guarantee of accuracy, but what has this got to do with Mineta testimony? and if testimony is subjective and not a guarantee of accuracy, then how do we establish that anyone elses testimony is accurate?

As has already been stated, numerous times, we establish testimony is accurate in the following way:

Take statements from all involved
Timecheck statements against each other, and against other verifiable sources (such as phone logs)
Cross-reference the data to build up a picture of the event.

Now, if all of your sources bar one match up, and that one sources matches up in most ways except that all of his recollections of the time are about 30mins out do you;

a) Conclude that the overwhelming evidence is that one person was slightly out on his recollection of the exact time.

b) Everyone else is mistaken or lying, and there is a coverup to {insert relevant coverup theory here}

 

[stundie]

Just answer the question - Don't just tell Mineta is wrong!

As has already been stated, numerous times, we establish testimony is accurate in the following way:

Take statements from all involved

Whose statement contradict Minetas statement or timeline?

Timecheck statements against each other, and against other verifiable sources (such as phone logs)

Such as the Secret service saying that Cheney logs in at 10:00am (or 9:52 if you believe Gravy) even though I have proven he must have been there before the planes crashed at the Pentagon.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&startpos=1500

Minettas timeline in regards to the plane being 50 miles, 30 miles etc are pretty accurate to the time it took the plane to hit the Pentagon! (See earlier posts 1st page I think too see my arguement)

Cross-reference the data to build up a picture of the event.

I have cross referenced it, but still cannot work out why Minetas testimony is wrong....Yet no one has STILL Managed to explain this.

Now, if all of your sources bar one match up, and that one sources matches up in most ways except that all of his recollections of the time are about 30mins out do you;

a) Conclude that the overwhelming evidence is that one person was slightly out on his recollection of the exact time.

b) Everyone else is mistaken or lying, and there is a coverup to {insert relevant coverup theory here}.

How many times do I have to ask this question? Whose testimonys contradict or put Minetas testimony timeline out??

Considering Cheney refused to testify under OATH, then the evidence and Minetas statement would show that Cheney knew the planes were heading towards the Pentagon, but appeared to do nothing.

Mineta thought that Cheney had given a shoot down order, but this could not have been the case! Again read earlier posts in this thread for the case of that arguement.

I'll await your reply...along with the others who I am waiting to get back to me too show that Minetas times lines are wrong??

 

[Cylinder]

So emphasis is mine and you are still wrong.

LOL. When I use the phrase emphasis is mine, it means I've altered a quoted section to provide an emphasis that was not contained in the original quote.

 

[Bell]

memory is maliable. Magic tricks often use misdirect of language and time so that people remeber things that never happaned. LI do a trick where I cut the deck but call it shuffling and I do this before the trick has begun in the minds of the audience. This way they remember that I shuffled at the end of the trick.

Eyewitness testimony is worse than magic tricks because people don't know what to focus on and when asked to recall can only remember general events and not specifics like time.

Thanks, but I was hoping stundie or Eckolaker would answer
Perhaps they are affraid of commenting on it?

 

[stundie]

LOL. When I use the phrase emphasis is mine, it means I've altered a quoted section to provide an emphasis that was not contained in the original quote.

So you still not answered the question then??

You still believe Minetas testimony is either wrong or his timeline is wrong, yet you would rather nit pick at points.

I think I'm done with you....because next thing is, we'll be arguing about Grammar and as Maccy says, we should stick to the point of the thread!

 

[stundie]

Thanks, but I was hoping stundie or Eckolaker would answer
Perhaps they are affraid of commenting on it?

Thought I had commented on it.

So if we are to use this arguement not just on Minetas testimoney but everyone else, then how do we assert anyones statements?

Or is this only applicable to Mineta because his version of events would prove that Cheney knew the plane was heading to the Pentagon??

I understand the tricks of magic misdirection etc, as I'm a big fan of Derren Brown and understand how uses subliminal messages, misdrection to make people see or hear things that weren't necessarily true.

I understand that memory is not always accurate, but 9/11 would be a significant day for everyone and of course, yes Mineta could be wrong, but so could Ashcroft, Cheney or anyone else.

Anyway back to the point...and lets stick with it because Maccy keeps telling me off for going off the threads subject.

I'll ask this yet again....Why is Minetas testimony either wrong or his timeline wrong?

Please post proof, evidence and I'll await your reply along with everyone elses in here who is unable to answer this question.

 

[Cylinder]

....because next thing is, we'll be arguing about Grammar and as Maccy says, we should stick to the point of the thread!

Grammar isn't a proper noun and should not have been capitalized.

 

[Horatius]

How many times do I have to ask this question? Whose testimonys contradict or put Minetas testimony timeline out??

Considering Cheney refused to testify under OATH, then the evidence and Minetas statement would show that Cheney knew the planes were heading towards the Pentagon, but appeared to do nothing.

Here's where the problem is. He thinks that "testimony" is the only acceptable evidence.

No one "testified" that Minetta was wrong. No one would have made such statements, as you don't testify about what others say, you testify to what you have seen. It's all the other, non-testimony evidence that indicates Minetta is wrong.

But since you won't accept any evidence other than what people say, we'll never convince you.

ETA:

So if we are to use this arguement not just on Minetas testimoney but everyone else, then how do we assert anyones statements?

See? Absolute no indication that he knows that physical evidence or documentary evidence can be used to corroborate testimony. If someone didn't say it, it never happened in his world.

 

[stundie]

Grammar isn't a proper noun and should not have been capitalized.

Can you answer the question...becuase franly you are wasting time and doing exactly what I said... hahahahaha!!

 

[stundie]

Here's where the problem is. He thinks that "testimony" is the only acceptable evidence.

Oh dear! This conclusion is not just from Minetas testimony, please see my other links to see how I come to this conclusion.

No one "testified" that Minetta was wrong. No one would have made such statements, as you don't testify about what others say, you testify to what you have seen. It's all the other, non-testimony evidence that indicates Minetta is wrong.

Again you are stating hearsay, were is your EVIDENCE?

What Evidence INDICATES Minetta is wrong? Because you like others have failed to do so on umpteen occasions!

But since you won't accept any evidence other than what people say, we'll never convince you.

This is the thing, show me evidence and I may be willing to change my mind, but you guys have not posted one single thing....So along with Cylinder...can you answer the question and provide any evidence??

 

[Mashuna]

I understand that memory is not always accurate, but 9/11 would be a significant day for everyone and of course, yes Mineta could be wrong, but so could Ashcroft, Cheney or anyone else.

Bolding mine. . .replace this word with everyone and see why your claim is getting so much grief.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60315&highlight=mineta
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62417&highlight=mineta
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63663&highlight=mineta
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65485&highlight=mineta