Nordic countries may finally ban circumcision.

[Agatha]

It is interesting that the males who sell SEX in porn are circumcised.

Sweeping generalisations FTW!

I've seen plenty of uncut men in porn.

 

[GlennB]

May I interest you in this thread and this thread or posts like these or these. You may find it will enlighten your confusion.

Ah! Thanks. This was my first time with ABC.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Why?

For me it's an issue of body autonomy. I cannot endorse any form of unnecessary body modification performed without informed consent.

If someone wants to get snipped when they're old enough to understand the consequences, I've no problem with that.

I do have a problem with permanently altering someone else's body, without their permission, for no good reason.

I'm cut, because that was just the norm when I was born, but my boys aren't. I couldn't find any good reason to void the warranty on a brand new baby.

But that said, I don't approve of laws preventing other people making that choice.

 

[rustypouch]

I'm cut, because that was just the norm when I was born, but my boys aren't. I couldn't find any good reason to void the warranty on a brand new baby.

But that said, I don't approve of laws preventing other people making that choice.

I've no problem with people having the choice to get cut.

I've a problem with people who mutilate children for no good reason, and without consent from the person whose body is being altered.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Sweeping generalisations FTW!

I've seen plenty of uncut men in porn.

I find it is generally true of US porn. But UK or Czech productions not so much. Some people use the category "Euro" for porn with un-cut actors, even if they aren't European...

 

[Rat]

I'm pretty extreme when it comes to my anti-circumcision opinions, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong there. The big HIV/circumcision trial a while back was pretty flawless. There was also a smaller trial a while back showing that female circumcision has a similar effect. Sadly, it seems to make sense, in the sense that a pathogen which is adapted to sexual transmission is probably adapted to "normal" human genitals, so chopping genital parts off (in either gender) will interfere with how the pathogen has adapted to spread from host to host.

That said, it only applies to areas with endemic HIV among heterosexuals (basically Africa) and condoms still work better.

It's pretty much irrelevant anyway. People are not vaccinating babies for that reason, but using that reason to rationalize afterwards. I don't think anyone's expecting their days-old baby to be indulging in unprotected sex, and if they want to do so later in life, they can make that decision then, though as much as I know that many men (and some women) are not keen on using condoms, I would have thought that most people think them preferable to a surgical procedure that provides at best the possibility of a slight protective effect.

 

[ABC10]

Ah! Thanks. This was my first time with ABC.

Well, don't make a stranger of yourself. We are big boys and girls here or as they say "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen".

 

[ABC10]

It's pretty much irrelevant anyway. People are not vaccinating babies for that reason, but using that reason to rationalize afterwards. I don't think anyone's expecting their days-old baby to be indulging in unprotected sex, and if they want to do so later in life, they can make that decision then, though as much as I know that many men (and some women) are not keen on using condoms, I would have thought that most people think them preferable to a surgical procedure that provides at best the possibility of a slight protective effect.

I don't find an AIDS diagnosis irrelevant at all which increases with non circumcision as demonstrated by studies. Vaccines are the greatest achievement of modern medicine and the biggest reasons that the average life span is now 78 and not 45 as it was years ago. Isolated communicable disease epidemics where children die are shameful and unnecessary due to careless parents.

 

[Rat]

I don't find an AIDS diagnosis irrelevant at all and the studies are true.
Vaccinations is the greatest achievement of modern medicine and one of the reasons that the average life span is now 78 and not 45 as it was years ago. Isolated communicable disease epidemics are shameful due to careless parents.

That's a slightly bizarre response. I also don't find an AIDS diagnosis irrelevant, and I don't think that it's a reasonable inference to make from what I said.

 

[ABC10]

That's a slightly bizarre response. I also don't find an AIDS diagnosis irrelevant, and I don't think that it's a reasonable inference to make from what I said.

"It's pretty much irrelevant anyway" per Post # 86.

 

[ABC10]

That's a slightly bizarre response. I also don't find an AIDS diagnosis irrelevant, and I don't think that it's a reasonable inference to make from what I said.

The conversation was about the flawless HIV/Circumcision trials.

 

[Rat]

"It's pretty much irrelevant anyway" per Post # 86.

Jesus Christ. Right, the fact that some studies appear to show that circumcision may have a slight protective effect against HIV infection is irrelevant to the reason why parents circumcise their children, particularly in the US and Europe. Is that a little bit clearer? I'm fairly sure no one else had trouble with it.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I've no problem with people having the choice to get cut.

I've a problem with people who mutilate children for no good reason, and without consent from the person whose body is being altered.

Not being argumentative but of curiosity, do you consider religion a "good reason" to circumcise?

 

[rustypouch]

Not being argumentative but of curiosity, do you consider religion a "good reason" to circumcise?

No.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

No.

oh, okay. Thanks.

 

[Darth Rotor]

If that's why it was done to me, it failed miserably.

Likewise.

Cut Jewish man reporting for duty, sir. All ok with snip-snip, I survived the memories of the 8th day of my life, all is well...

You are not permitted to have not suffered severe trauma over the issue. Didn't you see the hedge clippers in that Nordic cartoon? The way the trimming was depicted, it is almost a nodick cartoon.

Eta: For the record, I am circumcised, & it doesn't bother me at all. I just don't see a reason for it other than medical.

How dare you be a reasonable person in such a drama and emotion laced thread?

Now, if only we had some mega thread covering circumcision, or maybe a few of them, on the JREF forums, we could just send people to those garbage dumps of inane argument and posturing.

Hmm, where might one be?

Or another one?

Or another one?

Here's a bit from the hedge trimmer that hit the floor in Norway.

And there's this one

Folks on JREF sure like to talk about penises, and that ten percent off the top sale.

And as for "way to keep it classy" two of you need a little work.

Article 2 of the Constitution of Norway: "All inhabitants of the Realm shall have the right to free exercise of their religion."
So, basically that'll kill any attempt to ban circumcision.
I could be wrong. I don't know the future. I'm not wrong, but I could be.

Well, it comes into a different light if you see the children as individuals and not as props in the religious beliefs of their parents.

Yep. I've no problem if adults choose to get snipped. It's mutilating infants for no good reason that bothers me.

Your ignorance is disappointing, given how long I've participated with you guys on these JREF forums.

My parents are not much of religious anything, but in 195x had my brother, and then me in 195x+2, trimmed as that was the "conventional wisdom" of the day. Six years later, in 196x, my younger brother likewise. Nothing religious about it. When my son was born in 199x, we had a medical consult with our pediatrician and the OB delivering the baby about that issue. After the consult, my wife and I discussed it, and she felt more comfortable with the trim. She's from a German/Luxembourg/Swiss background American family. Oddly enough, they did not use teeth, they did not use a hedge trimmer, and they didn't cut off his penis, and he didn't die. Amazing medicine, practiced in California, simply amazing!

I know you two well enough to know that you both know that Loss Leader is a long standing member in good standing here, Jewish, father of two kids, and a decent person.

Right up there, you two just spit in his face.

Not well played, gentlemen.

 

[spin0]

How to enforce such a law? Do we have the school doctor/nurse report circumcised boys without a medical record of such procedure to the police?

Well, why not as they already have to report on other domestic violence and abuse. And children including infants do also get their medical checks by nurses/doctors who also keep related medical records.

Who will get prosecuted, the parents or the slasher?

Presumably both.

There's a relevant current court case here in Finland. A 4 month old infant was circumcised despite the refusal of the baby's mother. The father had lied to the doctor that both parents had agreed to the operation, and the doctor proceeded without further question.

The prosecutor demands prison sentences for aggravated assault for the father and the doctor. Earlier in the district court the father got fines and the doctor nothing.

The prosecutor also says that in 2010 Finland ratified the Council of Europe's Convention on Human Rights and Biomedicine which bans removing living tissue from a person who cannot consent:
"No organ or tissue removal may be carried out on a person who does not have the capacity to consent under Article 5."

 

[rustypouch]

Likewise.
You are not permitted to have not suffered severe trauma over the issue. Didn't you see the hedge clippers in that Nordic cartoon? The way the trimming was depicted, it is almost a nodick cartoon.

How dare you be a reasonable person in such a drama and emotion laced thread?

Now, if only we had some mega thread covering circumcision, or maybe a few of them, on the JREF forums, we could just send people to those garbage dumps of inane argument and posturing.

Hmm, where might one be?

Or another one?

Or another one?

Here's a bit from the hedge trimmer that hit the floor in Norway.

And there's this one

Folks on JREF sure like to talk about penises, and that ten percent off the top sale.

And as for "way to keep it classy" two of you need a little work.


Your ignorance is disappointing, given how long I've participated with you guys on these JREF forums.

My parents are not much of religious anything, but in 195x had my brother, and then me in 195x+2, trimmed as that was the "conventional wisdom" of the day. Six years later, in 196x, my younger brother likewise. Nothing religious about it.

I know you two well enough to know that you both know that Loss Leader is a practicing Jew, father of two kids, and a decent person.

Right up there, you two just spit in his face. Not well played, gentlemen.

Sorry if I don't find mutilating someone else's body without their permission, for specious reasons, defensible.

No matter if some people consider it harmless, there are risks and permanent effects. The decision should rest solely on the person who's having their body modified.

 

[Darth Rotor]

spin0

in re the post on Finland ...

Great idea. Put that doctor in jail. Screw all of his other patients up the butt over the lie told by that father.

Brilliant. Such subtle and nuanced justice.

rusty:
you can rationalize being rude, ignorant, and insulting all you like.
It still is classless.

( I have walked a few miles in those shoes, amigo).

 

[spin0]

spin0
in re the post on Finland ...
Great idea. Put that doctor in jail.

Sorry, I'm not judging in that case.

Screw all of his other patients up the butt over the lie told by that father.

Can't see how that would happen to his patients.

You know, hyperboles are not actually arguments.