Norad-Tapes around 10:07: "terminate all exercise inputs"

[fess]

The events that occurred September 11, 2001, would require that non-essential exercises cease immediately... would they not?
Why would it matter who gave the order to cease any exercise?

 

[Seymour Butz]

Why would it matter who gave the order to cease any exercise?

It doesn't to the rational and sane.

However, to insane, irrational, and paranoid twoofs, it is "suspicious" that this person is being kept out of public knowledge.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Let's start with if debunkers believe there were any exercises going on during the attacks. Well? Do any of you even admit this much? Because that would be some coincidence.

Do you understand what armed forces actually do when there isn't a war? They train, and they carry out exercises. That's about it.

Look up how many days in 2001 there were some kind of military exercise going on. Then divide by the number of days in 2001. When you've done that, come back and tell us what a spooky coincidence it was that there were exercises on that specific day.

Dave

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I wonder if anyone yelled out "Training Time Out!!!" during the events of that morning.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Do you understand what armed forces actually do when there isn't a war? They train, and they carry out exercises. That's about it.

Even when there is a war there will always be training and drills to either keep them on their toes or to get new people up to speed. Maybe not every day of the week (although during a work up it probably is) but 4 or 5 days out of the week an 8 hour drill period is SOP (in my experience).

Look up how many days in 2001 there were some kind of military exercise going on.

All of them. On multiple commands. In all branches of the military.

Then divide by the number of days in 2001. When you've done that, come back and tell us what a spooky coincidence it was that there were exercises on that specific day.

Dave

This is what some people don't get. You are constantly cycling people through the military, that lifestyle isn't for everyone and less than 10% stay in for the long haul (20 to 30 years). Because of that there are always n00bs that need to be trained and the rest need to be kept up to speed. In any given command you will lose roughly 10% of your people every 6 months through either EOAS (end of active service) or shore duty (or the equivalent in other branches). Drills and exercises are the norm and not the exception. If anything Saturday was the least likely day for a drill (Sunday was security drill day/field day like clockwork after lunch).

 

[BigAl]

Even when there is a war there will always be training and drills to either keep them on their toes or to get new people up to speed. Maybe not every day of the week (although during a work up it probably is) but 4 or 5 days out of the week an 8 hour drill period is SOP (in my experience).

Add that people and planes involved in training are never at the expense of people and planes that are assigned to fast-reaction duties.

 

[jammonius]

According to the NORAD-Tapes, around 10:07 there were still "exercise inputs" coming into Cheyenne Mountain, NORAD’s operations center.

How could it be, when according the official conspiracy theory, all exercises were stopped after the second crash around 09:03?

What kind of inputs, Speaker 10 was speaking about? Can anybody tell me, to whom this request, to stop the inputs, were given to?

13, 1547, near Pittsburgh. Possible bomb on board, united 93. Yeah, that's it. Near Pitt. Sorry, Northeast Weapons.
MALE SPEAKER 10: Hello. This is captain Taylor calling from Cheyenne Mountain control.
MALE SPEAKER 1: Yes.
MALE SPEAKER 10: what we need you to do right now is to terminate all exercise inputs comin into Cheyenne Mountain.
http://911depository.info/NORAD/Tapes/Transcript NEADS Channel 20 SD2 TK.pdf

Greetings bio and thank you for posting up an excellent topic for discussion, backed by a good OP, laying the foundation for posting based on NORAD/NEADS tapes, which are a good source for discerning the extent to which the military exercises could have been a part of the 9/11 deception.

I am a NO PLANER and hold that the military exercises were done to facilitate the appearance of jetliners when no such thing was present.

If we start with the first of the nine NORAD tapes preserved by 911depository, we see that the issue of the exercises and their impact upon the unfolding events starts out very early on.

http://911depository.info/NORAD/Tapes/Transcript NEADS Channel 02 MCC Op.pdf

Right at pg 4 of the first of the nine listed transcripts, this one for channel 02, we have the following exchange:

0010
1 BACKGROUND MALE: (inaudible).
2 MALE SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
3 BACKGROUND FEMALE: Call commercial.
4 MALE SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.
5 BACKGROUND FEMALE: (Inaudible).
6 BACKGROUND MALE: I've never seen so much real
7 world happen during an exercise.8 BACKGROUND FEMALE: They want (inaudible).
9 MALE SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.
10 BACKGROUND FEMALE: (inaudible) we're showing
11 him at? we're showing him at the last --
12 MALE SPEAKER 1: Speed?
13 BACKGROUND FEMALE: (inaudible).
14 BACKGROUND MALE: (inaudible).
15 BACKGROUND MALE: Lat/long.
16 MALE SPEAKER 1: Lat/long, 41.

OK, so let's discern some meaning from the above, occurring at pg. 4 of the first of the nine transcripts.

Basically, it is reasonable to infer that everything occurring up to that point was thought by NORAD/NEADS personnel to have been "exercise," which would include the simulated hijackings. There was no discernible difference between "exercise" and "real." Let me repeat that:

There was no discernible difference between "exercise" and "real."

Accordingly, bio, posters and lurkers, there can be no certainty that what is portrayed as having happened on 9/11 was real or not. Permit me to suggest posters here combine their discernment of this thread with NO PLANER threads that have generated a combined total of more than one hundred pages of discussion right here in JREF over the course of just this year alone.

See, for instance:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171082

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174043

This one is currently generating posts:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175654

Once again, bio, thanks for posting up an excellent topic.

 

[BigAl]

Greetings bio .

Even Bio isn't a no-planer.

You are all alone.

 

[Mr.Herbert]

indeed my girlfriend will be very happy, when I follow your recommendation.

So, your hand will be writing letters to the editors instead of <snip>, yeah your girlfriend will be very happy.

 

[Sabrina]

Oh for Pete's sake...

When I was on active duty, we went on at least one field exercise per quarter. And I was part of just one battery; there were five line batteries, the headquarters unit, and the maintenance company that would all have to go out at varying times in my battalion. There were two battalions in my brigade; that's 14 units all going out at varying times. Then there's the headquarters unit of the brigade; fifteen total subunits in one brigade alone. There were at least six brigades on post, including mine; that's 90 units right there, and we're not even COUNTING the fact that my post included both the basic and advanced courses to train officers PLUS the Sergeants Major academy, all of whom would have to go out to the field as a part of their training at various points. I'm fairly certain there were exercises of some kind going on pretty much on a daily basis.

Now granted, the large scale exercises of the type we're talking about on 9/11 don't happen that often; probably two to three times a year. But they are planned out MONTHS in advance; the logistics of housing, feeding, and training as many people as would be involved in an exercise of that nature are quite literally mind-boggling. And if you're doing it with several branches of the military - pfffft, it's amazing ANYTHING gets done, what with the haranguing and back-and-forth over who's responsible for what. So no, I don't find the fact that there were exercises going on on 9/11 suspicious at all; they planned them out probably at least 10 months in advance, if they were smart. And trust me when I say, the military hates wasting resources; putting together all that crap just to shut it down because a real-world scenario was happening would NOT EVER be approved by anyone in the military. It's a huge waste of resources, time, money, and FSM knows what else.

 

[progge]

I've never seen so much real world stuff happen during an exercise.

jammonius, you maybe would not catch the difference, but NEADS personnel knew that what was happening was "real world stuff", not an exercise. Actually, the very first call from ZBW cleared up every possible confusion.

 

[jammonius]

Sabrina,

Thanks for your anecdotal account of personal experience. I think it's helpful in figuring out why so few people were actually required to know what was actually going to happen on 9/11.

Here's how your post addresses that issue:

Oh for Pete's sake...
When I was on active duty, we went on at least one field exercise per quarter. And I was part of just one battery; there were five line batteries, the headquarters unit, and the maintenance company that would all have to go out at varying times in my battalion. There were two battalions in my brigade; that's 14 units all going out at varying times. Then there's the headquarters unit of the brigade; fifteen total subunits in one brigade alone. There were at least six brigades on post, including mine; that's 90 units right there, and we're not even COUNTING the fact that my post included both the basic and advanced courses to train officers PLUS the Sergeants Major academy, all of whom would have to go out to the field as a part of their training at various points. I'm fairly certain there were exercises of some kind going on pretty much on a daily basis.

Precisely. With next to no one knowing exactly what the purpose of any of them actually was. Rather, each person knew solely and only what they needed to know to do their part; i.e., push this or that button, report on what this or that monitor said and so on, all as is clearly revealed in the ebb and flow of the NORAD/NEADS transcripts under review in this thread.

Now granted, the large scale exercises of the type we're talking about on 9/11 don't happen that often; probably two to three times a year. But they are planned out MONTHS in advance; the logistics of housing, feeding, and training as many people as would be involved in an exercise of that nature are quite literally mind-boggling. And if you're doing it with several branches of the military - pfffft, it's amazing ANYTHING gets done, what with the haranguing and back-and-forth over who's responsible for what.

I do hope you realize the significance to this thread of what you, yourself, report on the basis of your own experience and understanding. In the above you accurately describe the scenario and the circumstances that confirm how few people may actually be "in the loop" of knowing what is really going on in a given exercise. The larger they are, the more likely it is that the cloak of secrecy that comes about by virtue of "need to know" and "eyes only" security clearance procedures can literally reduce the number of people (and whether they were military, or governmental or private contractors or foreign nationals, for that matter) who actually knew what was to happen on 9/11 to less than a handful; that would be 5 people. True, many others would have information that would cause them to strongly suspect that "something was up" so to speak, but those people would be too closely associated with the real inner circle to say anything; and, if they did, there would be serious consequences for them and for their careers, in all probability.

In the next outer loop of the concentric layering of "need to know" compartmented information, the ability to know what happened would be even less discernible.

So no, I don't find the fact that there were exercises going on on 9/11 suspicious at all; they planned them out probably at least 10 months in advance, if they were smart.

Your speculation is fine. Your belief is fine. You are, like everyone else, entitled to hold onto your beliefs as long as you can.

And trust me when I say, the military hates wasting resources; putting together all that crap just to shut it down because a real-world scenario was happening would NOT EVER be approved by anyone in the military. It's a huge waste of resources, time, money, and FSM knows what else.

Yeah, once the exercise got started there were probably only a very few people -- maybe only one -- who could actually call it off.

Everyone else was, afterall, just following orders...

Thanks for your post. You told it as it is that time, Sabrina, could you but realize it.

 

[jammonius]

Do you understand what armed forces actually do when there isn't a war? They train, and they carry out exercises. That's about it.

Look up how many days in 2001 there were some kind of military exercise going on. Then divide by the number of days in 2001. When you've done that, come back and tell us what a spooky coincidence it was that there were exercises on that specific day.

Dave

Why are you engaging in rationalization of the significance of the specific military exercises involved on 9/11 that involved simulated jetliner hijackings?

It would appear you are using "the general" to water down "the specifics."

I don't think you advance your cause very well by doing that; and, instead, you call attention to how perfectly the military exercises fit into the pattern, not of coincidence, but, rather, of the actual plan of 9/11.

Do you see the point for discussion that is being raised here?

In the main, it invites discussion of the specifics of the NORAD/NEADS transcripts and the available information on the specifics of the military exercises.

In my opinion, your best approach would involve reliance on the fact that the specifics of the military exercises are, themselves, still cloaked in secrecy. As you know, the 9/11 Commission was told "not to probe too deeply" and they didn't. All the 9/11 Commission could do for us was let us know that the military exercises took place and that those involved in it didn't tell the truth.

Because the truth was not told, it is inappropriate, in my view, to attribute benigh interpretations to the purpose of the military exercises. Usually, adverse conclusions are drawn against those who do not tell the truth and who are not forthcoming. In this instance, those who participated in the exercises did not say what they really did. That pattern of deception was especially noticeable the higher up the chain one went.

For instance, Cheney and Bush (in that order) did not have to say what they knew, right?

Let me hasten to add, in raising the above rhetorical question, the answer to which is contained in the question, I am not saying they did 9/11, rather, I am saying they did not say what they knew about the military exercises.

Hear this:

The significance of the MILITARY EXERCISES is that they are a means by which the events of 9/11 could actually have been carried out if they were disguised as exercises, but were, in fact "real." The tapes confirm that the difference between what was "real" and what was "exercise" was not readily discernible.

That is huge.

 

[jammonius]

I never knew debunkers were even willing to entertain this idea. Let's start with if debunkers believe there were any exercises going on during the attacks. Well? Do any of you even admit this much? Because that would be some coincidence.

Good question. Here's hoping you'll get a forthcoming response from those who self-identify as debunkers.

I usually bypass them and address questions of the type you raise to the lurker group instead. In my experience, debunkers are very steadfast. It took over 80+ pages in the Dick Oliver and ALL 43 threads to get just one person, a self-described "lurker" with debunker tendencies, to even admit there are some viable witnesses who say they neither saw nor heard actual jetliners on 9/11. Mind you, I am not suggesting we go there in this thread; rather, I am just raising that as an example of the difficulty in getting debunkers to be forthcoming about indicators that the common storyline of 9/11 is false.

Nice to see you in this thread.

all the best

 

[fess]

Jammonius;
Have you ever been involved in a large scale military exercise? Statements like this;...

Posted by Jammonius:
"Precisely. With next to no one knowing exactly what the purpose of any of them actually was. Rather, each person knew solely and only what they needed to know to do their part; i.e., push this or that button, report on what this or that monitor said and so on, all as is clearly revealed in the ebb and flow of the NORAD/NEADS transcripts under review in this thread."
...tend to make me believe that you haven't.

 

[twinstead]

Another thread where jammonius is debating about something he knows NOTHING about.

 

[MikeW]

Why are you engaging in rationalization of the significance of the specific military exercises involved on 9/11 that involved simulated jetliner hijackings?

Which exercises were those, then?

 

[Myriad]

Notice carefully what BACKGROUND MALE said:

I've never seen so much real world happen during an exercise.

He is clearly speaking from considerable experience with multiple previous exercises. (If one says "I've never seen X happen during Y" it implies sufficient experience with Y to be familiar with what normally does happen.) So, what he is saying is that this exercise has characteristics that exercises, in his experience, do not have.

Thus BACKGROUND MALE qualifies as our first no-exercise witness.

Since it's now proven by recorded witness statements that there was no exercise on 9/11, we must conclude that all the reported events of 9/11 are actually and indisputably real.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Sabrina]

If memory serves, a lot of those exercises that were being performed on 9/11 were recurring exercises; i.e. ones that are repeated year to year and updated as necessary. And the ones that were new were being performed with the intent of making them recurring exercises.

Jammo is on my ignore list, but from what other people here are saying, he's basically showing his blatant ignorance of how military exercises work, which comes as little to no surprise. The notion that each soldier has only one task to perform is utterly preposterous; the entire purpose of these exercises is to train as many people as possible in as many areas as possible so as to have a well-rounded fighting force. Cross-training, regardless of MOS, is alive and well in the military. Everyone is briefed on the purpose of the exercise and is required to be capable of assuming the duties of someone else at a moment's notice, depending upon circumstances.

Jammo, as I've said, you're on my ignore list, but please; stop talking about things you know absolutely nothing about. It just makes you look stupid.

 

[jammonius]

The following observation stands as unrefuted and unaddressed:

The significance of the MILITARY EXERCISES is that they are a means by which the events of 9/11 could actually have been carried out if they were disguised as exercises, but were, in fact "real."

The tapes confirm that the difference between what was "real" and what was "exercise" was not readily discernible.


That is huge.

Debate about what each individual soldier, sailor, airman, cadet or crew member does or does not do utterly ignores the real point.

Exercises cause people and material to move, computers to get input and give output, planes, or holographic images of them, as it were, to get activated, explosions to take place, be they live ammo, or pyrotechnical displays, as it were, and DEW, etc. etc. All of those things are high tech implements of post modern warfare, all of which places emphasis on stealth and deception, because that is what war is, an exercise in force and in fraud. And, importantly, that is what was being simulated on 9/11, in a context where there was no real way to distinguish "real" from "exercise" and "versa" from "vice."

That is the proper context in which the following statment occurred:

I've never seen so much real world happen during an exercise

There was no discernible difference between what was real and what wasn't.