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Norad-Tapes around 10:07: "terminate all exercise inputs"

jammonius said:
There was no discernible difference between what was real and what wasn't.
And here we see the crux of jammonius' problem. To sane people, it is indeed possible to discern the difference between reality and science fiction. It was quite discernible (to a sane person) that commercial flights slammed into the ground in PA, the Pentagon, and the WTC towers 1 and 2.

Really, you ought to get some help for your problem. I'm not kidding. Just run these ideas (or your postings here) past a mental-health professional and see what they say. What can it hurt?
 
Jammonius;
Have you ever been involved in a large scale military exercise? Statements like this;...

Posted by Jammonius:
"Precisely. With next to no one knowing exactly what the purpose of any of them actually was. Rather, each person knew solely and only what they needed to know to do their part; i.e., push this or that button, report on what this or that monitor said and so on, all as is clearly revealed in the ebb and flow of the NORAD/NEADS transcripts under review in this thread."

...tend to make me believe that you haven't.


I do not play 20 questions games with posters. If there is a point you want to make, would you please come right on out and bring it. Stand firm, don't be shy, obey the rules of posting, if you are so inclined, and say whatever it is you want to say. I will not engage you in your rhetorical ploys.

Clear?
 
I do not play 20 questions games with posters. If there is a point you want to make, would you please come right on out and bring it. Stand firm, don't be shy, obey the rules of posting, if you are so inclined, and say whatever it is you want to say. I will not engage you in your rhetorical ploys.

Clear?

Just one question;
Have you ever been involved in a large scale military exercise?
A one word answer, please.
 
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The following observation stands as unrefuted and unaddressed:

The significance of the MILITARY EXERCISES is that they are a means by which the events of 9/11 could actually have been carried out if they were disguised as exercises, but were, in fact "real."

The tapes confirm that the difference between what was "real" and what was "exercise" was not readily discernible.
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Is refuted by:
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That is the proper context in which the following statment occurred:

"I've never seen so much real world happen during an exercise."
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Seems like this person was very clear on the difference between real and exercise, which is why he knew that a lot of "real" was happening during an exercise.

I mean, otherwise, he'd've said, "I've never seen so much real world happen during real world stuff" or "I've never seen so much exercise happen during an exercise."

Or perhaps, "Gee, it's so confusing -- was that real world or was that exercise?"
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jammonius, you maybe would not catch the difference, but NEADS personnel knew that what was happening was "real world stuff", not an exercise. Actually, the very first call from ZBW cleared up every possible confusion.

NEADS knew, that it lost its fighters to other command structures existing on 9/11. There was confusion, see the statements of the langley pilots.

Borgstrom says they are "all three on different frequencies... and [are] getting orders from a lot of different people."
Filson, 2003, pp. 66

There are different, various official explanation developing during the years for that anomaly, until middle 2003 for example that the fighters were heading towards Flight 93, therefor they were not heading towards Washington D.C around 09:30.:eek:


"Yes, there is an exercise maestro."

Don Arias, 1st Air Force and Continental United States NORAD Region public affairs

Why the transcript of the Norad-Tapes are redacted, that nobody can find out, who could end the exercise-inputs? Who was the maestro?
 
NEADS knew, that it lost its fighters to other command structures existing on 9/11. There was confusion, see the statements of the langley pilots.

Borgstrom says they are "all three on different frequencies... and [are] getting orders from a lot of different people."
Filson, 2003, pp. 66

There are different, various official explanation developing during the years for that anomaly, until middle 2003 for example that the fighters were heading towards Flight 93, therefor they were not heading towards Washington D.C around 09:30.:eek:


"Yes, there is an exercise maestro."
Don Arias, 1st Air Force and Continental United States NORAD Region public affairs

Why the transcript of the Norad-Tapes are redacted, that nobody can find out, who could end the exercise-inputs? Who was the maestro?

With posts like this you may never figure out 911. You don't make any sense with all your nonsense.
 
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Is refuted by:
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Seems like this person was very clear on the difference between real and exercise, which is why he knew that a lot of "real" was happening during an exercise.

I mean, otherwise, he'd've said, "I've never seen so much real world happen during real world stuff" or "I've never seen so much exercise happen during an exercise."

Or perhaps, "Gee, it's so confusing -- was that real world or was that exercise?"
.

Your speculation is as good as any, of course. And, you can believe whatever you want to believe, again, of course.

However, the way forward here is to assess the actual NORAD/NEADS tapes and see if they shed any light on the matter, thus eliminating the need, let alone the propriety, of engaging in speculation.

There the issue is put to rest. The fact is, the controllers DID NOT know the difference between real or simulated inputs.

For instance, we all know that Air traffic controller Pete Zalewski was the one who thought he recognized a foreign, Middle Eastern-sounding voice, but does not make out the specific words that are attributed to the conversation he overheard, namely, the famous “we have some planes” declaration.

Zalewski did however respond saying: “Who’s trying to call me?” Seconds later, in the next transmission, the transmission includes: “Nobody move. Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves you’ll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet,” according to the 9/11 Commission and mainstream media stallwart MSNBC, 9/9/2006.

But Bill Peacock, the FAA director of air traffic services, (confirmed by the FAA transcript) later says:

“We didn’t know where the transmission came from, what was said and who said it.”

And, David Canoles, the FAA’s manager of air traffic evaluations and investigations, adds:

“The broadcast wasn’t attributed to a flight. Nobody gave a flight number.”

The FAA report that is the source of the OP simply says with respect to these claimed transmissions that they came from:

“an unknown origin.”


See: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa7.pdf
pg. 4/59

So, there you have it. The voice transmissions were of unknown origin, meaning they could not be distinguished as being either real or exercise.

That is the point, posters and lurkers. Radio transmissions that are unidentified, blips on a radar screen that are electronic and therefore subject to simulation, are inherently indistinguishable by the people sitting in front of monitors and/or listening to something coming into there ears via headsets, speakers, phones or similar devices.

Come on posters and lurkers, put on your objective thinking caps.

Once again, I am not questioning, let alone challenging, what people believe.

If you believe jetliners were hijacked on 9/11; fine. Believe as you will for as long as you can and as ardently as is necessary.

The point here is only and solely that the data here under consideration cannot be determined to be either real or exercise.

So, in conclusion, your post refutes nothing and this post confirms that your claim of refutation is not viable on the basis of the available data that is provided here and sourced.

Thanks for your post.
 
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And, you can believe whatever you want to believe, again, of course.

I normally ignore your mad raving lunacy, but you are talking through you ass now without even knowing where your ass is located.

You mix up NEADS and the FAA as if they are the same. It is quite obvious that NEADS personnel knew they were operating "real world" from the initial phone call from Scoggins at Boston. You have absolutely no clue.

As for the "unidentified" radio transmission, there are such things as logical conclusions that can be drawn by sane rational people. The fact that you can't or won't is a testament that you are neither.
 
Your speculation is ...

Why are your posts equal to jet engine parts are Plymouth wheel cover delusions? How are you so consistent at not posting anything rational? Are you making fun of insane people like Judy Wood and Dr. Jones?

The nonsense you posted made no sense. Can you try to be clear up what you are trying to say and what it means relative to the topic started by another person who has no clue what happen on 911 after 8 years?


You never get anything right about 911.
There was no discernible difference between what was real and what wasn't.
For you reality does not exist as you post lies and moronic analysis on 911.
 
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Okay, I admit to femalish curiosity and clicked on one of Jammo's posts to see it despite his being on my ignore list.

Remind me not to do that again; the stupid burned my retinas.

Jammo, I'll address you directly just to point out one little issue with your conclusion... here it comes... are you ready?

*ahem*

NEADS AND FAA ARE TWO ENTIRELY SEPARATE ENTITIES; NEADS COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE HEARD THE TRANSMISSION YOU REFER TO IN POST #50 BECAUSE THEY WERE, AT THE TIME, PAYING ATTENTION TO THE EXERCISE TRANSMISSIONS. FAA WAS THE ENTITY WHICH HEARD THAT TRANSMISSION.

You seem to be enamored of different colored and sized fonts; thought I'd speak to you in your language. Next time, I highly suggest you get your facts straight before you start talking out of your butt.
 
Okay, I admit to femalish curiosity and clicked on one of Jammo's posts to see it despite his being on my ignore list.

Remind me not to do that again; the stupid burned my retinas.

Jammo, I'll address you directly just to point out one little issue with your conclusion... here it comes... are you ready?

*ahem*

NEADS AND FAA ARE TWO ENTIRELY SEPARATE ENTITIES; NEADS COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE HEARD THE TRANSMISSION YOU REFER TO IN POST #50 BECAUSE THEY WERE, AT THE TIME, PAYING ATTENTION TO THE EXERCISE TRANSMISSIONS. FAA WAS THE ENTITY WHICH HEARD THAT TRANSMISSION.

You seem to be enamored of different colored and sized fonts; thought I'd speak to you in your language. Next time, I highly suggest you get your facts straight before you start talking out of your butt.

Usually, when someone does a drumroll of sorts, like, say, use of an *ahem* a "gotcha" game is likely being introduced. As you may know, Sabrina, I do not play "gotcha" games. I am not interested in who is winning/losing/catching up/falling behind/way ahead or behind or whatever.

I prefer to let the data, or the lack of it, to stand or fall on its own merit, as each poster or lurker presents it, and to assess the sources for reliability and cogency and to base my discussion accordingly. The discussion centers on the claims that can be made from the available data and the drawing of conclusions, reasonably and consistently.

This process is, to me, an exchange of information, I am not trying to prove you wrong or me right. That is what others, like say, Lapman, does; you know "Lapman right, jammonius wrong". I hope that sort of posting doesn't appeal to you overmuch.

OK, with that frame of reference in mind, let's take a look at what your post offers:

NEADS AND FAA ARE TWO ENTIRELY SEPARATE ENTITIES; NEADS COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE HEARD THE TRANSMISSION YOU REFER TO IN POST #50 BECAUSE THEY WERE, AT THE TIME, PAYING ATTENTION TO THE EXERCISE TRANSMISSIONS. FAA WAS THE ENTITY WHICH HEARD THAT TRANSMISSION.

I think you are attempting to take comfort in being able to assert a distinction, resulting in a false choice, and in something that makes no difference at all.

NEADS and FAA had signficant overlap in connection with the events of 9/11, including direct discussion. Neither could distinguish "real" from "exercise" and both had data to work with that made no sense and that could not be reliably determined to be correct or incorrect, related to exercises or not.

Here's how it worked:

Members of staff at NORAD/NEADS had difficulty locating Flight 11 and other aircraft on their radar screens. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins of NEADS will say that when the FAA first calls and reports the first hijacking “He [FAA] gave me the latitude and longitude of that track… [but] there was nothing there.”

The foregoing is, then, clearly consistent with false imagery being used under the quise of an exercise that was real, alright, real in the sense that it was designed to make it appear as if jetliners were hijacked when, in fact, no such thing happened as there were no jetliners involved, all is more fully substantiated by the observable and reported data supplied by the eye and ear witnesses and by the stupidly false video imagery that absolutely did not correspond with the proper sounds that should have been associated with the event, not to mention the crash and explosive dynamics that were entirely consistent with Evan Fairbanks descriptive language of:

"a bad special effect."

Colin Scoggins, the military liaison at the FAA’s Boston Center, later recalls: “I was giving NEADS accurate location information on at least five instances where AA 11 was, yet they could never identify him.… I originally gave them an F/R/D, which is a fix/radial/distance from a known location; they could not identify the target. They requested latitude/longitudes, which I gave them; they still could not identify the AA 11.… I gave them 20 [miles] south of Albany heading south at a high rate of speed, 600 knots, then another call at 50 south of Albany.”

Source: http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a837unablelocate#a837unablelocate

th_267_dawne_deskins2050081722-9049.jpg

LtCol. Dawne Deskins didn't have a clue what was real and what was exercise.

For a more complete assessment of Deskins and of the military exercises taking place, including reference to use of simulating hijackings see:

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a630vigilantguardian#a630vigilantguardian


all the best
 
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I normally ignore your mad raving lunacy, but you are talking through you ass now without even knowing where your ass is located.

You mix up NEADS and the FAA as if they are the same. It is quite obvious that NEADS personnel knew they were operating "real world" from the initial phone call from Scoggins at Boston. You have absolutely no clue.

As for the "unidentified" radio transmission, there are such things as logical conclusions that can be drawn by sane rational people. The fact that you can't or won't is a testament that you are neither.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make and/or how you are trying to make it. That is because you rely too heavily on simple emotional rant, as is clearly evident in your use of playground language and tactics.

Can you, perhaps, rethink whatever it is you are trying to say and post it a bit more cogently?

take care
 
Two points, that immediately settle this issue.

a) "Inputs" doesn't mean what you think it means.

b) NEADS SOCCs and ROCCs have two computer systems; one for real-world operations and one for exercises and simulations. There's no cross-over.
 

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