NIST releases final report on WTC7!!!!

[DC]

how do you feel about osama bin laden?

i think he is guilty for killing civilians and hate speech. and i think it is good possible that he is involved in 9/11.

 

[Apollo20]

Nist Missed ..... (the Wtc 7 Boat!)

I think when something like the collapse of WTC 7 occurs, the public needs to be reassured that the building was properly constructed, met all applicable codes, and that similar buildings are safe to occupy. Thus we need a good, thorough, investigation of the destruction of WTC 7; and I believe any investigation of this nature should be carried out in a timely manner.

If we think of similar examples, three come immediately to mind: the sinking of the Titanic (whose 96th anniversary is today!); the 1986 Chernobyl reactor explosion; and the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster of 2003.

The British Board of Trade inquiry into the Titanic disaster ran from May 2 to July 3, 1912. The Chernobyl accident of April 26th 1986 was investigated by the Institute of Atomic Energy in Moscow who issued its “Investigation into the causes of the Accident at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant” in October 1986. The Columbia accident occurred on Feb 1st 2003 and the NASA accident report was issued August 26th 2003.

In the case of the Pickering Unit 2 pressure tube failure of August 1983, (I referred to in a previous post), the basic accident investigation was carried out within a few months of the event and reports were issued to the Canadian Atomic Energy Control Board within a year. There were programs of research established thereafter to look at alternative pressure tube materials and to set up hydrogen ingress studies, but these were secondary to the accident reports.

Thus we see that NIST is way out of line with its response to the collapse of building 7, even allowing for the fact that it had to investigate the failures of WTC 1 & 2 first!

 

[IDB87]

When Al Capone and other Mafiosis are able to keep evedence hidden. im pretty sure that a corrupt group inside Gov Agencys are able to do the same.

Sure!

But you do realize the sheer amount of materials required to bring down both WTCs and 7 is ENORMOUS, don't you? You do realize the debris was left at GZ for WEEKS (with thousands of people poking through it) before it was shipped off to Fresh Kills, don't you? YOU DO REALIZE that that debris was then RAKED through very maticulously to find human remains and other such items?

And to think, not one piece of evidence supporting a CD has shown up.

 

[Disbelief]

I think when something like the collapse of WTC 7 occurs, the public needs to be reassured that the building was properly constructed, met all applicable codes, and that similar buildings are safe to occupy. Thus we need a good, thorough, investigation of the destruction of WTC 7; and I believe any investigation of this nature should be carried out in a timely manner.

Why? Why is the collapse of a building that had large parts of one of the largest buildings in the world dropped on it, more important than other things NIST is doing? If it had not been on TV, would it be as important? Would you even know or care if they were investigating the collapse?

 

[DGM]

I think when something like the collapse of WTC 7 occurs, the public needs to be reassured that the building was properly constructed, met all applicable codes, and that similar buildings are safe to occupy. Thus we need a good, thorough, investigation of the destruction of WTC 7; and I believe any investigation of this nature should be carried out in a timely manner.

I see your point but I don't think there is any urgency to complete the investigation. The building experienced damage that was well beyond the scope of the design and performed well all things considering. The design of the building allowed everyone to get out and the lessons learned in the tower investigations carry over well (to include WTC 7) into safeguards to assure public safety.

What's the rush?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

they ruled it out without any evidence?

The same way you may have ruled out unicorns being the cause. They didn't find any evidence of them. Would you prefer they made up some evidence? Never mind, silly question.

And no, you have absolutely NO indications of a CD other than uneducated assumptions. NIST uses experts, remember? Not kids on the internet who don't know anything about CDs.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I also think Apollo is right. It's a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. Just think about what could happen to you if a 110 story building collapses next to the one you are in? How do you know you will survive? How can we be sure the building you are in won't collapse as the result of noe being properly designed to withstand a 110 story building falling on it?

Think of the children.

 

[Apollo20]

Disbelief/DGM:

Well, here we go.... when you say why investigate "the collapse of a building that had large parts of one of the largest buildings in the world dropped on it", what exactly were those parts? Where did they hit? Why did the collapse start low down in the building?

You see, this is precisely WHY we need an inquiry!

You could say we all KNEW that Columbia had some tile damage... so why have an inquiry.

The Titanic hit an iceberg... looks like case closed there too.

And Chernobyl, well, those goof-ball operators simply pushed the wrong button!

And as for the hurry... well all the Truthers are feeding off the silence from NIST don't you know, and besides, inquiring minds need to know!

 

[Jonnyclueless]

But there isn't a lack of an inquiry, just a disagreement on the length of time.

 

[DGM]

Disbelief/DGM:

Well, here we go.... when you say why investigate "the collapse of a building that had large parts of one of the largest buildings in the world dropped on it", what exactly were those parts? Where did they hit? Why did the collapse start low down in the building?

You see, this is precisely WHY we need an inquiry!

You could say we all KNEW that Columbia had some tile damage... so why have an inquiry.

The Titanic hit an iceberg... looks like case closed there too.

And Chernobyl, well, those goof-ball operators simply pushed the wrong button!

And as for the hurry... well all the Truthers are feeding off the silence from NIST don't you know, and besides, inquiring minds need to know!

I didn't say that there was no need for an investigation did I? I think the biggest reason for the delay is because they're looking into if there was a case for "single point failure" concerns. This is the part of the investigation I'm anxious to see. I just don't see what the urgency is.

 

[The Big Dog]

"And as for the hurry... well all the Truthers are feeding off the silence from NIST don't you know, and besides, inquiring minds need to know!"

Well, I guess NIST is just answering the question how you keep a moron in suspense!

Seriously, though, Silence?? There have been regular updates from NIST. Hell, I seem to recall that during the last update, Gage made a screaming ass out of himself.

but I digress.... I am sure you agree that they should take as much time as they need, so long as they get it right.

 

[Drudgewire]

So... Never, then?

You wish.... I wish... but it's gonna happen, and it's going to tick me off.

 

[T.A.M.]

well im sorry but i do indeed belive that Al Capone was guilty for things they never was able to prove.

maybe i have a wrong inpression and Al Capone was an honorable man

I agree about Al Capone. My point was on your "burden of proof to convict".

I personally think that OBL is much like Al Capone in this regard. It is for this reason, I believe, that they have not indicted him on the 9/11 charges (among other reasons).

TAM

 

[Disbelief]

Disbelief/DGM:

Well, here we go.... when you say why investigate "the collapse of a building that had large parts of one of the largest buildings in the world dropped on it", what exactly were those parts? Where did they hit? Why did the collapse start low down in the building?

You see, this is precisely WHY we need an inquiry!

Eventually, it may be important to have these questions answered, but as DGM pointed out, it is not urgent. I noticed that you failed to answer the other questions put to you:

Why is the collapse of this building more important than other matters that NIST deals with?

If it had not been on TV, would you even know or care if they were investigating the collapse?

You could say we all KNEW that Columbia had some tile damage... so why have an inquiry.

The Titanic hit an iceberg... looks like case closed there too.

Quit being so naive. You realize that NASA had to figure out what happened if they wanted money to continue flying shuttle missions. They also had to reclaim public support and trust after such a disaster.

As for the Titanic, don't you think that it would be important with the amount of sea travel at the time to know precisely what happened to an "unsunkable" ship? Probably bad for business if they don't find out.

And Chernobyl, well, those goof-ball operators simply pushed the wrong button!

I think the importance of what happened at Chernobyl far outweighs what happened to WTC7.

As an aside, one of my co-op student's dad was one of the lead investigators for the Russian government into the disaster.

And as for the hurry... well all the Truthers are feeding off the silence from NIST don't you know, and besides, inquiring minds need to know!

Well, I am sure NIST does not give a crap about what the truthers think.

 

[T.A.M.]

I personally think that an investigation of the collapse of WTC7 is critical, for the reasons Apollo has mentioned. I also feel that where possible, a timely report be given. I also would point to the INTERIM Report on WTC7. I would also point to the fact that we do not know if more regular updates were given by the investigators to their superiors. I would also like to point out that it is CRITICAL to be as close to correct on the collapse mechanism as possible, so corrective measure in other buildings, if needed, can be taken, or mistakes in construction avoided...there fore if more time is needed to reach this, so be it.

TAM

 

[DGM]

I personally think that an investigation of the collapse of WTC7 is critical, for the reasons Apollo has mentioned. I also feel that where possible, a timely report be given. I also would point to the INTERIM Report on WTC7. I would also point to the fact that we do not know if more regular updates were given by the investigators to their superiors. I would also like to point out that it is CRITICAL to be as close to correct on the collapse mechanism as possible, so corrective measure in other buildings, if needed, can be taken, or mistakes in construction avoided...there fore if more time is needed to reach this, so be it.

TAM

I agree that the they should take as much time as they need because I also don't think that there is thing one (as far as codes) that can be done to prevent this collapse given the circumstances.

We want open spaces in buildings (for aesthetic and economic reasons) and these designs work well as long as there isn't problems outside of expected limitations. WTC 7 performed excellent as far as what the design of the building could ever expect to encounter. Should we install airbags on airplanes for the unlikely event it might save someone in a crash?

Our buildings are inherently safe as long as circumstances don't exceed expectations. NIST's problem at this point is to decide where to draw the line between safety and profitability for the owner.

 

[1337m4n]

It takes time to come up with a plausible explanation that doesn't appear to defy the laws of physics and can conclude that debris damage, "normal office fires" and single column failure brought down WTC 7.

I have one, very simple question for you, RedIbis. Simple as can be. A plain, easy, simple yes-or-no question that even a child could answer:


Do you accuse NIST of being "in on it"?

Yes or no?

Very simple.

 

[RedIbis]

I have one, very simple question for you, RedIbis. Simple as can be. A plain, easy, simple yes-or-no question that even a child could answer:


Do you accuse NIST of being "in on it"?

Yes or no?

Very simple.

NIST is an institution made up of scores of individuals. Like the illogic of suggesting that the FDNY could operate as some monolithic whole, we can't ascribe similar characteristics to an agency.

Your question is a false dichotomy, as well.

 

[applecorped]

So, that would be a No? You can't even answer a yes or no question.

 

[1337m4n]

NIST is an institution made up of scores of individuals. Like the illogic of suggesting that the FDNY could operate as some monolithic whole, we can't ascribe similar characteristics to an agency.

Your question is a false dichotomy, as well.

Did you or did you not write the following:

It takes time to come up with a plausible explanation that doesn't appear to defy the laws of physics and can conclude that debris damage, "normal office fires" and single column failure brought down WTC 7.

Explain. And for the love of God stop dodging. You don't even appear to know what "false dichotomy" means.