New truth effort AE911

[smartcooky]

Yes, body parts and plane parts were found on adjacent buildings. Uhh, which is, sorta, rather solid evidence that the building was hit by a plane full of people. And yes, some of those parts were identified as parts of passengers and crew of the plane in question.

Hans

Given that the towers were taller than any of the buildings around them, and that the planes impacted well above the rooflines of those buildings, I would be utterly astonished if plane parts and human remains of passengers were NOT found on the roofs of nearby buildings.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Given that the towers were taller than any of the buildings around them, and that the planes impacted well above the rooflines of those buildings, I would be utterly astonished if plane parts and human remains of passengers were NOT found on the roofs of nearby buildings.

Exactly! But this is the core of all CT: Take evidence that is against you and present it as if it was FOR you.

Hans

 

[smartcooky]

Exactly! But this is the core of all CT: Take evidence that is against you and present it as if it was FOR you.

Hans

Its exactly the same game the conspiritards try to play with the Apollo landings - "OMG, there are no stars in the sky" is "proof" the photos were not taken on the moon, whereas someone with the most elementary understanding of photography would look at a lunar photo WITH stars in the sky, and regard that as highly suspicious.

It all boils down to the conspiritards' ignorance and failure to understand basic. Middle School physics.

 

[Robin]

The truthers are trying to push the idea that the debris flying out from the building when the top part collapses is against the law of physics.

I am not sure what exactly they think would happen when a hundred thousand of tons or so of concrete and steel come crashing down on the lower half of the building.

There is a video on their website of a guy with a physics degree saying that he can't imagine what force is propelling the debris outwards. He rejects the idea that the force comes from the top part of the building collapsing on the basis that the top part of the building is not there. He actually superimposes little arrows with question marks pointing at the missing top part of the building.

I wonder what he thinks that debris is.

I wonder if these relatives have tried to contact anyone for an independent opinion or if they are just listening to the truthers that are cynically using them.

 

[Oystein]

Yes, body parts and plane parts were found on adjacent buildings. Uhh, which is, sorta, rather solid evidence that the building was hit by a plane full of people. And yes, some of those parts were identified as parts of passengers and crew of the plane in question.

Hans

Years ago, I tried to verify this, but could not find any evidence the highlighted is true. (Nor that it is false)

I have always assumed that plane passengers were the most likely sources of those fragments, followed by tenants in the path of the planes. But never found a source that said the fragments were thusly identified.

 

[Robin]

Years ago, I tried to verify this, but could not find any evidence the highlighted is true. (Nor that it is false)

I have always assumed that plane passengers were the most likely sources of those fragments, followed by tenants in the path of the planes. But never found a source that said the fragments were thusly identified.

But there would also be tenants above the impact level whose remains are among the rubble that is pushed outwards by the collapsing material.

 

[bknight]

Years ago, I tried to verify this, but could not find any evidence the highlighted is true. (Nor that it is false)

I have always assumed that plane passengers were the most likely sources of those fragments, followed by tenants in the path of the planes. But never found a source that said the fragments were thusly identified.

I'm trying to understand your thought.
Are you saying that there were biologic parts found on top of other buildings that were not be ID'd or are you saying that there were no biologic parts found?

ETA the last part of your post seems to indicate that there were biologic parts found.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Years ago, I tried to verify this, but could not find any evidence the highlighted is true. (Nor that it is false)

I have always assumed that plane passengers were the most likely sources of those fragments, followed by tenants in the path of the planes. But never found a source that said the fragments were thusly identified.

There were som articles in the years following the attack. I can't locate any, now.

Hans

 

[Myriad]

The recent six-part National Geographic documentary includes eyewitness accounts from the interval between the airplane impacts and the first collapse. These include descriptions of courtyard areas strewn with scattered debris, including numerous bodies and body parts. Those areas ended up buried deep under the collapse rubble a short time later, so the early debris was seen by relatively few people and there are few if any photographs of it. It's very plausible that the same kind of debris also landed on some of nearby lower rooftops (and actually, somewhat implausible if none did on any of them).

 

[Fonebone]

The "evidence" in that letter includes

There's also a claim that 'body parts were found on top of adjacent buildings'. That's actually new to me. Anyone know what that's about?
(The linked video in the article talks about bone fragments found on top of the Deutsche Bank building).

There were som articles in the years following the attack. I can't locate any, now.
Hans

According to this Associated Press story from 2007 about a victim's body fragments recovered from the roof
of the Deutsche Bank building rooftop during a subsequent search to ID some of the thousands of unrecovered
missing victims.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/9-11-victims-id-bones-deutsche-bank-article-1.266195
...
Graphic produced by searchers and FDNY personnel of locations where human body fragments were discovered.
The human fragment footprint extends from the westside of West street to Church street on the eastside
and from WTC6 at the North down to Liberty street on the South.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4508


Enhanced graphic of same.
Yellow dots indicate human body fragments and red dots indicate fire department
equipment recovery locations.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4534


A Forensic coroner outlines his opinion of fragmented bodies and condition
of flesh and bone fragments recovered scattered about the three-hundred meter diameter envelope surrounding
ground zero.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4447


Edited to add 2011 CBS story stating 700 body fragments were discovered on the roofs of the Deutsche Bank
along with "parts of the hijacked plane".
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/01/09/toxic-tower-damaged-on-911-finally-coming-down/

 

[Robin]

According to this Associated Press story from 2007 about a victim's body fragments recovered from the roof
of the Deutsche Bank building rooftop during a subsequent search to ID some of the thousands of unrecovered
missing victims.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/9-11-victims-id-bones-deutsche-bank-article-1.266195
...
Graphic produced by searchers and FDNY personnel of locations where human body fragments were discovered.
The human fragment footprint extends from the westside of West street to Church street on the eastside
and from WTC6 at the North down to Liberty street on the South.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4508


Enhanced graphic of same.
Yellow dots indicate human body fragments and red dots indicate fire department
equipment recovery locations.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4534


A Forensic coroner outlines his opinion of fragmented bodies and condition
of flesh and bone fragments recovered scattered the three-hundred foot diameter envelope surrounding ground zero.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4447

300 metres is not much since the human remains will get caught up in the falling debris and get scattered with it. That is hardly a mystery. Do the AE911 folk think it will just remain neatly inside the footprint of the building?

Of course the debris in a collapse like that will get scattered and of course some of the human remains will be scattered with it. Why on earth do they think it wouldn't?

 

[Robin]

Enhanced graphic of same.
Yellow dots indicate human body fragments and red dots indicate fire department
equipment recovery locations.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4534

Who is the older guy in this?

He is basically saying that he can't imagine how 33 million kilograms of concrete and steel crashing down on the lower half of the tower can fuse human remains together.

 

[Robin]

I mean they do realise, don't they, that the initial scattering is mainly caused by the impact of the mass in the top section with the lower section?

 

[Fonebone]

Double post deleted

 

[Fonebone]

300 metres is not much since the human remains will get caught up in the falling debris and get scattered with it. That is hardly a mystery. Do the AE911 folk think it will just remain neatly inside the footprint of the building?

Of course the debris in a collapse like that will get scattered and of course some of the human remains will be scattered with it. Why on earth do they think it wouldn't?

This is an image from a screen grab of the body parts debris field captured from my link...
[IMGw=800]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j394/xfonebonex1/human_body_parts_debris_field(1).png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/IMGw]


The last link in my post #90 from CBS local states 700 body parts and airplane parts were found on the roof of the Deutsche Bank.
The very bottom of this image is Liberty street running East-West.


The Deutsche Bank is below
the image bottom as seen in this schematic of the WTC complex.

The Deutsche Bank building is labeled Bankers Trust to the south of WTC4.

 

[Fonebone]

Who is the older guy in this?

He is basically saying that he can't imagine how 33 million kilograms of concrete and steel crashing down on the lower half of the tower can fuse human remains together.

If you are referring to the man with the unusual hair style, that is Geoffrey Campbell's brother Matt Campbell

https://www.ae911truth.org/inquest


If you're referring to this gentleman I'll let him introduce himself here...
Cyril H Wecht
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=3999


Pay special note his bonafides and credentials as a Forensic pathologist
and medical legal consultant. This is the same gentleman featured in my
post #90 link...
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4447

 

[Robin]

This is an image from a screen grab of the body parts debris field captured from my link...
[qimg]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j394/xfonebonex1/human_body_parts_debris_field(1).png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/qimg]


The last link in my post #90 from CBS local states 700 body parts and airplane parts were found on the roof of the Deutsche Bank.
The very bottom of this image is Liberty street running East-West.


The Deutsche Bank is below
the image bottom as seen in this schematic of the WTC complex.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/363814b2ef2e14efaa.jpg[/qimg]
The Deutsche Bank building is labeled Bankers Trust to the south of WTC4.

I had already noted the location of the Deutsche Bank, about 230 feet from the edge of the south tower

So, as I say, totally unsurprising that 33 million kgs of concrete and steel crashing down on the lower part of the building in a few seconds would represent a massive amount of energy and that it would scatter debris over a wide area.

 

[Robin]

If you're referring to this gentleman I'll let him introduce himself here...
Cyril H Wecht
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=3999


Pay special note his bonafides and credentials as a Forensic pathologist
and medical legal consultant. This is the same gentleman featured in my
post #90 link...
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4447

Anyone who claims that 33 million kgs of concrete and steel crashing down on the lower part of the building would not be enough to fuse the body parts together is either a fool or a liar.

And in this case I think we can rule out fool.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

This is what the letter says:

While I acknowledge that there is some degree of outward velocity of debris from the collapse, there is not enough to justify body parts being found far away on top of buildings, as is what happened. Gravity pulls downward not outward.

It's essentially an argument from incredulity.
In the linked AE911T video, Gage does not elaborate on this, and no calculations are shown.
Moreover, he says these are the remains of firefighters, not plane passengers (and doesn't mention the possibility that these could be the remains of people who were working in the towers). No evidence is cited to support this claim.
fonebone: what evidence is there that a) the force of the collapse was insufficient to account for the distance of these ejected remains, and b) that these are the remains of firefighters, not people from either the offices or the plane?

 

[Oystein]

I'm trying to understand your thought.

Let me help you trying.

Hans wrote:

[...]body parts and plane parts were found on adjacent buildings. Uhh, which is, sorta, rather solid evidence that the building was hit by a plane full of people. And yes, some of those parts were identified as parts of passengers and crew of the plane in question.

In this text, I highlighted this part:
"some of those parts were identified as parts of passengers and crew of the plane in question"

And I write about that highlighted part, stating my doubt thusly:

Years ago, I tried to verify this, but could not find any evidence the highlighted is true. (Nor that it is false)

The "this" that I "tried to verify" "Years ago" thus refers, obviously to the subjected of the highlighted phrase: That some body parts were identified as belonging to people on the plane.

So to answer your questions:

Are you saying that there were biologic parts found on top of other buildings that were not be ID'd or are you saying that there were no biologic parts found?

I accept as fact that body parts were found on top of other buildings.
I have no doubt that efforts were made to identify them by DNA.
I assume that at least some of these body parts have been identified.
I find it plausible and likely that most of those body parts belong to either passengers and crew of the plane, or to tenants hit directly by the plane debris.

What I said was: "I could not find evidence that the highlighted is true" - the highlighted being that the result of the identification process was "plane passengers and crew". The object of my sentence is "evidence".

So what I am saying is: I have not seen EVIDENCE that the result of the identification process was "passengers and crew".

ETA the last part of your post seems to indicate that there were biologic parts found.

The part where I don't highlight and don't comment on parts being found is actually the part that indicates I accept that part.