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New truth effort AE911

pgimeno said:
I seriously doubt this claim. The ground broke and part of the buildings went into the underground parking. That's not something that can't be appreciated in the LIDAR image, but it can be seen in the GZ photos.

And there would be a huge pile of rubble that would have taken ages to clear until getting to the staircase where the group that saved their lives (David Lim and others) was when the tower collapsed. However they were saved in a question of hours at most.
Click to expand...


Officer David Lim stated he was rescued from a fourth floor B stairwell landing
in the WTC1 north tower. The Lidar reveals the evidence
that the WTC1 north tower rubble pile was taller than the WTC7 rubble pile. The WTC7 rubble pile
is shown in the LIDAR as a "pillow-shaped" mound at the far left of the image.
The WTC7 pile's pillow shape shown in the LIDAR is verified in this image of the East side of
the collapse as viewed from the North-East corner.

363814c71db3d77a2d.jpg



Perhaps we should move any further intercourse over to the original thread to avoid drifting too far off-topic.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214226


Thanks -Fonebone
 
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Fonebone said:
According to this Associated Press story from 2007 about a victim's body fragments recovered from the roof
of the Deutsche Bank building rooftop during a subsequent search to ID some of the thousands of unrecovered
missing victims.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/9-11-victims-id-bones-deutsche-bank-article-1.266195
...
Graphic produced by searchers and FDNY personnel of locations where human body fragments were discovered.
The human fragment footprint extends from the westside of West street to Church street on the eastside
and from WTC6 at the North down to Liberty street on the South.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4508


Enhanced graphic of same.
Yellow dots indicate human body fragments and red dots indicate fire department
equipment recovery locations.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4534


A Forensic coroner outlines his opinion of fragmented bodies and condition
of flesh and bone fragments recovered scattered about the three-hundred meter diameter envelope surrounding
ground zero.
https://youtu.be/11RwCm_OaGc?t=4447


Edited to add 2011 CBS story stating 700 body fragments were discovered on the roofs of the Deutsche Bank
along with "parts of the hijacked plane".
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/01/09/toxic-tower-damaged-on-911-finally-coming-down/
Click to expand...

Oystein said:
Thanks for the evidence that human remains mapped with the rest of the debris. Which of course surprises no one.
Do you understand that this map shows remains on the ground as well es elsewhere?
Do you understand that the towers fell all over the place, wildly outside the footprint - contrary to what "controlled demolitions" look like?

At 1:14:21 hours, the author and title of a work of science are shown:
Human Identification following the World Trade Center Disasater:
Assessing Management Practices for highly fragmented and commingled Human Remains

by Amy Mundorff​
Amy Mundorff was NYC's full-time forensic anthropologist. For three years, she was tasked with the gruesome work of studying thousands of human remains to identify them.

Did any of the grifters who exploit McIlvaine and that British family care to secure an interview with Mrs. Mundorff? Why not? She is now at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. She is, by the way, a 9/11 victim two, got injured by the collapse of the South Tower. She has dedicated hew life and her work to helping the living relatives of victims of disaster to cope and find closure. She is a true 9/11 hero - all the ******** responsible for the aptly named "Unspeakable" are not.
Anyway, here is the report this unknown and irrelevant man is reading from:
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/56373999.pdf
Read it!
For example: While the "Unspeakable" idiots wonder why victims were so fragmented, Mundorff has answers. Page 15:
Click to expand...
Don't bother to hit the link..A mommyrator has decided you should not read her paper and killed the link.
Mox Nix -the paper with graphics is still viewable on this link...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct.../ETD4798.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0VMVUlciwgG8K_kei4OEyE
She goes on to review literature on previous disasters where mass identifiation of the deceased was attempted - it's always been difficult, and never unusual that not all remains can be identified following particularly violent events.
Click to expand...
Very true. Amy Mundorff does an excellent job of speculating the possible causes of the fragmentation of body parts scattered throughout the WTC
site on page 14 and 15 of her PDF.

[excerpt]
By this stage most
remains were being excavated by the grapplers, which simultaneously tore and mashed
the decomposing bodies, causing further destruction and commingling. The grapplers
were described as, “gapped tooth claws that could open 8 feet wide, but could also close
into an overbite so tight that it could snap twigs” (Langewiesche 2002:182). The15
aggressive manipulations by heavy machinery, combined with the effects of fires, water,
and decomposition over time rendered most of the recovered human remains highly
fragmented and unrecognizable.[/excerpt]

However Ms. Mundorff ignored what she posted of page 35 (pg 52 of PDF)
[excerpt]...
the 1947 explosion of the French ship Grandcamp, destroyed over one-third of
Texas City, Texas, and killed 752 individuals (Davis 2002). In this incident, most bodies
were either blown into small unidentifiable fragments or completely destroyed during the
ensuing extreme fires (Davis 2002). The small fragments were collected by locals and
taken to a makeshift morgue in a nearby abandoned garage, although little could be
done to identify these fragments at that time (Stephens 1993)
[/excerpt]
Click to expand...
 
Fonebone said:
...
The 1947 explosion of the French ship Grandcamp destroyed over one-third of Texas City, Texas, and killed 752 individuals (Davis 2002). In this incident, most bodies were either blown into small unidentifiable fragments or completely destroyed during the ensuing extreme fires (Davis 2002). The small fragments were collected by locals and taken to a makeshift morgue in a nearby abandoned garage, although little could be done to identify these fragments at that time (Stephens 1993).
Click to expand...


.. because the explosion, at sea level, of a ship in port carrying ammonium nitrate fertilizer, is IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING as fully fueled airliners full of people flying into two 1,500 ft tall buildings at 450mph, and then 30 million kilograms of the top parts of the buildings collapsing onto the bottom parts. :rolleyes:

Seriously, anyone who believes this ******** is a certifiable nutcase.
 
smartcooky said:
.. because the explosion, at sea level, of a ship in port carrying ammonium nitrate fertilizer, is IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING as fully fueled airliners full of people flying into two 1,500 ft tall buildings at 450mph, and then 30 million kilograms of the top parts of the buildings collapsing onto the bottom parts. :rolleyes:

Seriously, anyone who believes this ******** is a certifiable nutcase.
Click to expand...


Ammonium nitrate eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rwotkepTmQ&t=39s


B767 or B757 flying at 450MPH at low altitude eh?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2021/06/22/from-russian-servers-2010-b52-test-flights-debunk-9-11/
Editor’s note: The B-52 Stratofortress, one of the most robust aircraft ever built disintegrated, killing her crew, when tested at the same speed and 10 times the altitude as the 757 alleged to have hit the Pentagon. Follow the world’s finest test pilots in their attempts to make the world’s strongest aircraft fly 4 times higher than the Pentagon at speeds approaching “9/11”

COOL STORY BRO...
 
smartcooky said:
.. because the explosion, at sea level, of a ship in port carrying ammonium nitrate fertilizer, is IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING as fully fueled airliners full of people flying into two 1,500 ft tall buildings at 450mph, and then 30 million kilograms of the top parts of the buildings collapsing onto the bottom parts. :rolleyes:

Seriously, anyone who believes this ******** is a certifiable nutcase.
Click to expand...


Ammonium nitrate eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rwotkepTmQ&t=39s


B767 or B757 flying at 450MPH at low altitude eh?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2021/06/22/from-russian-servers-2010-b52-test-flights-debunk-9-11/
Editor’s note: The B-52 Stratofortress, one of the most robust aircraft ever built disintegrated, killing her crew,
when tested at the same speed and 10 times the altitude as the 757 alleged to have hit the Pentagon.
Follow the world’s finest test pilots in their attempts to make the world’s strongest aircraft
fly 4 times higher than the Pentagon at speeds approaching “9/11”

COOL STORY BRO...
 
In addition to formatting and the edit function, you seem to be having trouble with links?

Fonebone said:
Don't bother to hit the link..A mommyrator has decided you should not read her paper and killed the link.
Click to expand...

This link that you quoted and posted is a pdf document and still works. Did you mean something else? https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/56373999.pdf


Veterans Today is an anti-Semitic propaganda site, so please don't link that here.
 
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Fonebone said:
Ammonium nitrate eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rwotkepTmQ&t=39s


B767 or B757 flying at 450MPH at low altitude eh?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2021/06/22/from-russian-servers-2010-b52-test-flights-debunk-9-11/
Editor’s note: The B-52 Stratofortress, one of the most robust aircraft ever built disintegrated, killing her crew, when tested at the same speed and 10 times the altitude as the 757 alleged to have hit the Pentagon. Follow the world’s finest test pilots in their attempts to make the world’s strongest aircraft fly 4 times higher than the Pentagon at speeds approaching “9/11”

COOL STORY BRO...
Click to expand...

None of which has any relevance at all to what you are claiming about the bodies of the the 9/11 victims and the collapse footprint of the towers

ETA: So airliners can't do 400kts at low level huh?

This 747 is doing 400kts in a low-level display pass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PEg-DBfJFA

This A310 is about 60ft off the ground, flaps up, gear up, at take off power doing around 530 kts just under its MMo (max mach).

https://youtu.be/0gkJdff-x7M?t=15

No sign of it breaking apart.
 
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carlitos said:
In addition to formatting and the edit function, you seem to be having trouble with links?
Click to expand...



This link that you quoted and posted is a pdf document and still works. Did you mean something else? https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/56373999.pdf
Click to expand...
The link, at the time I wrote my post the link was broken and I spent an hour searching for a working link to the PDF. Maybe mommy had a change of heart.



Veterans Today is an anti-Semitic propaganda site, so please don't link that here.
Click to expand...


The "antisemitic slur" is the personification of the Israeli Skunk machine
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72yun used to quell any criticism of
the actions of the 21st century Uber menschen against the 21 century vermin unter menschen as needed.
 
Fonebone said:
Ammonium nitrate eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rwotkepTmQ&t=39s


B767 or B757 flying at 450MPH at low altitude eh?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2021/06/22/from-russian-servers-2010-b52-test-flights-debunk-9-11/
Editor’s note: The B-52 Stratofortress, one of the most robust aircraft ever built disintegrated, killing her crew, when tested at the same speed and 10 times the altitude as the 757 alleged to have hit the Pentagon. Follow the world’s finest test pilots in their attempts to make the world’s strongest aircraft fly 4 times higher than the Pentagon at speeds approaching “9/11”

COOL STORY BRO...
Click to expand...

Ok, BRO how do you reconcile the FDR recording flying the aircraft that low and at those speeds? Further, if you believe that the aircraft was unable to that velocity and speed, where is the aircraft and where are the crew and passengers? I have asked many times and you refuse to answer, WHY?
 
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Fonebone said:
The link, at the time I wrote my post the link was broken and I spent an hour searching for a working link to the PDF. Maybe mommy had a change of heart.






The "antisemitic slur" is the personification of the Israeli Skunk machine
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72yun used to quell any criticism of
the actions of the 21st century Uber menschen against the 21 century vermin unter menschen as needed.
Click to expand...


You really don’t understand anything. It’s sad.
 
Fonebone said:
Ammonium nitrate eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rwotkepTmQ&t=39s


B767 or B757 flying at 450MPH at low altitude eh?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2021/06/22/from-russian-servers-2010-b52-test-flights-debunk-9-11/
Editor’s note: The B-52 Stratofortress, one of the most robust aircraft ever built disintegrated, killing her crew,
when tested at the same speed and 10 times the altitude as the 757 alleged to have hit the Pentagon.
Follow the world’s finest test pilots in their attempts to make the world’s strongest aircraft
fly 4 times higher than the Pentagon at speeds approaching “9/11”

COOL STORY BRO...
Click to expand...

Add explosives to your list of stuff you have zero knowledge on.

LOL - BIG TIME...
You just posted proof why aircraft are limited to Vmo below 10,000 feet.

When we overspeed our aircraft low, we subject the airframe to stress. We limit our speed to Vmo to make sure the aircraft remain viable for long-life. Thus you are clueless why there are limits. However, we must design planes to survive past Vmo if we are upset (like overspeed, or over limits) so we don't kill people on the aircraft!.

The damage I have seen from aircraft going past their limit of Vmo was skin separation from the honeycomb under the leading edge of the wing. Nothing stops the jets from going past Vmo and crashing into buildings.

Did you look up the limits for the plane on 9/11? No, you post BS, off topic BS in a thread about nuts spreading lies about 9/11.

Do you realize there is nothing stopping the 757 and 767 from over speeding them selves with the engines. Thus the claim planes can't go fast in thick air is a lie... in case you were curious.

Flight 11 was exactly at Vd at impact, a speed the aircraft was flight tested at. Oops, there goes the failed attempt to Gish Gallop to some victory of woo.

450 mph? lol, Vd is 483.3 mph, thus you failed, again.

The planes on 9/11 were designed to be Flutter free to 1.2 Vd so if pilots, like me or other pilots, get upset and accidently go past 580 mph, we can save the aircraft because the controls work, and save the aircraft and people... I guess you failed to study aero in College.

450 mph, is below 580 mph, guess you failed to study flight dynamics in College. Did you go to College? https://www.historylink.org/File/10063

Yes, like 9/11, aircraft disintegrate when they hit stuff at 400 knots... do you do valid research, or repeat BS you google? BS you google is based on evidence from your posts.

Which B-52 fell apart at low-level. Date, Time, Aircraft #... etc Is this it? Did you do more than regurgitate BS? NO...

The aircraft which hit the Pentagon was below 1.2 Vd, thus you aircraft speed issues have failed to make a point.

The aircraft speeds on 9/11 are facts as seen on video, RADAR, and on FDR. To claim the aircraft can't reach the speeds, are bogus lies. Why are you trying to use this as proof of what ever your point is.

BTW veterans today is a bad source for facts, a great source of and for woo.
 
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Fonebone said:
The "antisemitic slur" is the personification of the Israeli Skunk machine
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72yun used to quell any criticism of
the actions of the 21st century Uber menschen against the 21 century vermin unter menschen as needed.
Click to expand...

Not true, as if that needed saying.
Are you aware that the Veterans Today chairman, Gordon Duff, is on record as saying that 30% of what's written on that site is false, and that 40% of what he himself writes is also false?
Of course you're aware, because you carefully check each and every data point, right? :rolleyes:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/12/how-russia-targets-the-us-military-215247/

You guys and your Russian propaganda. Really. :rolleyes:

https://archive.org/details/GordonDuff.FalseInformationControversy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Today
 
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The comparson to B52 has (yet) another flaw: Robust as it may be, it vas designed in 1950 or so. Quite a bit has happened in aircraft design since then.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
The comparson to B52 has (yet) another flaw: Robust as it may be, it vas designed in 1950 or so. Quite a bit has happened in aircraft design since then.

Hans
Click to expand...

Another aspect that fonebone missed was:

Information and Resolution

The investigation by Air Force and Boeing experts concluded the accident was caused by the catastrophic failure of the horizontal stabilizer (tailplane), affecting the B-52’s longitudinal stability. The plane was not designed for the excessive turbulence of high-speed, low-level flight and began to disintegrate. Minus the horizontal stabilizer, the nose of the plane pitched sharply upward and it stalled, struck a knoll and exploded. At an altitude of 500 feet, there was virtually no chance for the crew to escape.

Despite the tragic outcome, the test flight yielded one significant piece of information. The airmen monitoring the radar scopes at the Burns Air Force Radar Station were unable to detect the presence of the B-52 skimming the desert floor. The tactic was apparently effective, but unquestionably risky. Boeing engineers soon fixed the horizontal stabilizer problem and low-level flight testing was resumed.
Click to expand...

https://www.historylink.org/File/10063

The B-52 involved in the June 23, 1959 accident wasn't the robust airframe that fonbone's linked article pretends it to be, but that is just normal CT misinformation.
 
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