Merged New telepathy test: which number did I write ?

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Michel H said:
Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post
Why are you doing these silly, poorly designed tests. It would be a trivial matter to measure the output of your brain at these frequencies and the signal strength at other people's heads.
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I think it would be doable, but not necessarily easy. It's always easy when it's up to others to do it. Did you see the light?
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Whether it's trivial, doable or easy, it isn't up to anyone else but you to do the test, since it's your claim.
 
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Michel H said:
I think it would be doable, but not necessarily easy. It's always easy when it's up to others to do it. Did you see the light?
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How hard can it be? You claim to know the approximate wavelength, which is in the radio wave spectrum.

Regardless, this seems to be very important to you. You also believe you can't get a fair test because everyone is lying about your ability. So why not build a detector and just show you can manipulate it? Surely a physicist knows how to build a simple antenna. Hook it up to a speaker or a LED. Think at it.
 
TheSapient said:
How hard can it be? You claim to know the approximate wavelength, which is in the radio wave spectrum.

Regardless, this seems to be very important to you. You also believe you can't get a fair test because everyone is lying about your ability. So why not build a detector and just show you can manipulate it? Surely a physicist knows how to build a simple antenna. Hook it up to a speaker or a LED. Think at it.
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Because that sort of test would have empirically verifiable results, rather than just answers that could be judged "credible" (or not) based solely on Michel's subjective criteria. Can't have that...
 
turingtest said:
It's probably only a matter of time before the word "quantum" makes an appearance here.
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Already happened nearly a year ago:
Michel H said:
Yes, sure. It's mostly about Quantum Mechanics (and Quantum Field Theory). I found some apparently pretty solid reasons to believe that Quantum Mechanics can actually be derived from classical electrodynamics (this is a position very different from the current one, where the Schrödinger equation is postulated). I also have a good reason (I think) to believe that the Special Theory of Relativity is incorrect (although usually quite accurate).
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Hilites by Daylightstar
 
Michel H said:
... to insist he could actually perceive "all my thoughts".
...
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Not exactly, it was to correct your incorrect statement:
Michel H said:
... which allow you to know some of my thoughts, ...
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Michel H said:
...
Of course, he did not really prove he could hear all my thoughts. ...
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Of course not, however, I was correct about your mother having urged you to use medication to be the only correct statement you made about your mother.
Also, I was correct about your negative relationship with your mother and your exchanges about this with a psychiatrist.

You actually need to get your mother out of the equation for a solution.
 
Michel H said:
What do you think about this post of Daylightstar, members of this forum?
[...]
he came back, not to say that he was not serious and had lied in his previous post, but to insist he could actually perceive "all my thoughts".
Is this the strong and clear testimony in favor of my telepathy hypothesis that you needed in order to take it seriously? Do you feel you have seen the light in a starlike fashion now?
Of course, he did not really prove he could hear all my thoughts. But I believe these kinds of testimonies are interesting nevertheless.
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I think he's playing games with you. And with us. And making the point that claims are not evidence.

If you want proof, think about your phone number and ask him to call it.
 
Michel H said:
I think it would be doable, but not necessarily easy. It's always easy when it's up to others to do it. Did you see the light?
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I see that if you did these tests you would find a way of interpreting them in such a way as if you are emitting "thought waves."

Having dealt with people with unusual views, I recognize that any "objective" evidence can still be explained so as to fit that view. A weighing scale may tell someone 5'10" that they weigh 84 pounds, but that would not be viewed as under weight if they were convinced that they were fat. They might think that the scale was broken, or the scale maker was part of a conspiracy or the "fat" was still there but distributed in a "bad" way. In some cases, the only thing to do is to change the brain chemistry first so that the person can re-evaluate their unusual views. Of course, some people with unusual views think of this as brainwashing.
 
Daylightstar said:
I am hearing Michel H's thoughts. All of them.
...
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TheSapient said:
How hard can it be? You claim to know the approximate wavelength, which is in the radio wave spectrum.

Regardless, this seems to be very important to you. You also believe you can't get a fair test because everyone is lying about your ability. So why not build a detector and just show you can manipulate it? Surely a physicist knows how to build a simple antenna. Hook it up to a speaker or a LED. Think at it.
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I wouldn't say everybody is lying all the time, there are some positive (or partly positive) moments (see above).
It seems likely that the high frequency electromagnetic waves emitted by the human body (or the brain), considered as a dielectric cavity, have a very low intensity (otherwise presumably they would have been detected already; it is possible that brain activity, action potentials, excite the normal modes of the cavity, just the way lightning discharges excite Schumann resonances in the big cavity formed by the Earth's surface and the ionosphere). It is also possible, though, that our brains, with their large number of neurons, have an extraordinary ability to detect very small electromagnetic fields. CNN published a few months ago an interesting article, comparing electronic noses to dogs. They said:
While the devices today don't come close to mimicking the nose of a dog, I'm confident that they will help to recognize diseases based on body odors.
This means that Nature stills beats human (electronic) technology (in that area at least).
 
Michel H said:
...It seems likely that the high frequency electromagnetic waves emitted by the human body (or the brain), considered as a dielectric cavity, have a very low intensity (otherwise presumably they would have been detected already
[...]
It is also possible, though, that our brains, with their large number of neurons, have an extraordinary ability to detect very small electromagnetic fields.
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Of course one problem with this hypothesis is discrimination: the hyper-sensitive receiving device is part of a structure which is also busily transmitting at the same time. And of course it's only one of seven billion such transmitter/receivers, all operating simultaneously.
 
Daylightstar said:
Perhaps you meant it more like Michel H mentioning quantum in direct support for his other statements?
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That is what I meant, yes. It just seems that folks making woo claims like Michel's inevitably make appeals to woo understanding of "quantum."

TBF to Michel, though, since he's a physicist (I think he has said so somewhere in this thread*), he probably has a better actual understanding of "quantum" than I do; and he hasn't used the word out-of-context here yet.

*And I see no reason to dispute it; as Giordano says, scientists are people too, sometimes unable to separate what they believe for (or about) themselves from what they can demonstrate to others.
 
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Michel H said:
Yes, I have actually studied the physical aspect.

The power of the brain is approximately 20 Watt (see hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml).
On the other hand, with 5 W (radiated) power, ham radio operators can make voice contact with "the other side of the world" (see ham1, ham2). It is possible to make telegraphic contact with the other side of the world (using for example the Morse code) with only 500 mW (ham2). According to wikipedia, the current record for a "QRP" connection (this means "low power amateur radio connection") is 1 microWatt for 1,650 miles on 10 meter (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QRP_operation#Philosophy).

The human brain has gamma oscillations of frequencies up to 200 Hz, see High-frequency gamma oscillations and human brain mapping with electrocorticography. There are probably other, much higher frequencies of electromagnetic waves, which occur when electromagnetic pulses created by cerebral activity and neuronal action potentials bounce back and forth between the "walls of the brain", in this way you create a simple high frequency oscillator, which then may get modulated by the gamma waves.

It is possible that our neurons are like extra-ordinarily sensitive transistors, which "trigger" when a well defined voltage threshold is reached (this triggers the action potential) and can amplify. And since there are so many of them (about one hundred billion), you presumably end up with an extraordinarily biological device for detecting electromagnetic waves in your skull, which will detect primarily waves of the "right wavelengths" for creating a sustained oscillation, which are waves creating by other brains. It is possible that my own gamma waves have something special in the message they convey (perhaps because I am more altruistic than most), which would explain why they are understood better than the average. It is also possible that my "special" telepathic waves get understood and re-emitted by other brains after a long journey, and thereby amplified.
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If you are not happy with what is happening in this thread, there are other directions you can take to be happier.
 
Donn said:
A detector built by Michel would detect what he wants to find.
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Perhaps, but a detector might be open to scrutiny, and, of course, he'd have actually to build one and think about it. If, as he claims, there's a signal of a known frequency and a known wattage, then it should be possible to detect it. Hell, an SWR meter from CB days would probably detect it if it were what is represented.
 
Michel H said:
I wouldn't say everybody is lying all the time, there are some positive (or partly positive) moments (see above).
It seems likely that the high frequency electromagnetic waves emitted by the human body (or the brain), considered as a dielectric cavity, have a very low intensity (otherwise presumably they would have been detected already; it is possible that brain activity, action potentials, excite the normal modes of the cavity, just the way lightning discharges excite Schumann resonances in the big cavity formed by the Earth's surface and the ionosphere). It is also possible, though, that our brains, with their large number of neurons, have an extraordinary ability to detect very small electromagnetic fields. CNN published a few months ago an interesting article, comparing electronic noses to dogs. They said:
While the devices today don't come close to mimicking the nose of a dog, I'm confident that they will help to recognize diseases based on body odors.
This means that Nature stills beats human (electronic) technology (in that area at least).
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So you, a physicist, can't build an antenna to a specific frequency and power because other scientists can't create a smell machine that is a precise as the nose of a dog. Interesting excuse. You know who doesn't make excuses like that? people who actually believe their claims.
 
Michel in the light of everything said in this thread, I have to ask a few questions:

1:Why did you even construct any tests at all? You're fully convinced your telepathic so was it to prove to others your not crazy or was it because a small part of you is reaching out for help?

2:Will there be future tests and why?

3:Why is it you take in posts [humor or not] that say they can hear your thoughts but ignore and dismiss the ones that don't?
 
Michel H said:
Yes, I have actually studied the physical aspect.

The power of the brain is approximately 20 Watt (see hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml).
On the other hand, with 5 W (radiated) power, ham radio operators can make voice contact with "the other side of the world" (see ham1, ham2). It is possible to make telegraphic contact with the other side of the world (using for example the Morse code) with only 500 mW (ham2). According to wikipedia, the current record for a "QRP" connection (this means "low power amateur radio connection") is 1 microWatt for 1,650 miles on 10 meter (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QRP_operation#Philosophy).
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These statistics are meaningless in this context. Your claim is not that someone on the other side of the Earth is hearing your signal, your claim is that your signal is propagated to every inhabited location on the face of the world. If you are going to assert that your claim can be supported by numbers, then use numbers associated with your claim. Every single inhabited location in the world.

Oh, and as for your assertion that receiving minds might be repeating the signal, then SURELY it would be possible to build a machine to detect a signal in a city of 10,000,000 people. Ten million transmitters all sending the same signal at the same time? With transmissions that great it is a wonder that major metropolises do not suffer some kind of incapacitating electromagnetic interference. Also, if a single person were to produce an odor so strong that 10,000,000 dogs could simultaneously detect it, then someone else could build a machine that detects that very same odor. The dog's-nose analogy is discarded.

No, Michel, you have not presented any supporting evidence in your statistics.
 
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Ladewig said:
...
Oh, and as for your assertion that receiving minds might be repeating the signal, then SURELY it would be possible to build a machine to detect a signal in a city of 10,000,000 people. Ten million transmitters all sending the same signal at the same time? With transmissions that great it is a wonder that major metropolises do not suffer some kind of incapacitating electromagnetic interference. ...
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Mm I am not too sure about my own theories myself. However, I suppose electromagnetic telepathic signals are very tiny, and even if my own signal gets repeated, say, in New York or Paris, the total intensity of the "telepathic waves" is probably not going to change much. For example, the taxi driver and the pizza delivery man in NY are constantly thinking (this means brain activity), and constantly emitting some power P. Let's assume you're in Manhattan, and they're both at the same distance R from you. Your brain may absorb radiation from them proportional to 2P/R². If they think about me for one second, consciously or unconsciously, you still get 2P/R², still a small power, and they do not really start thinking when they think about me, their thinking is a continuous process (they think about their work for example). It's a little annoying that I seem to try to give myself a central position, but this is a special situation (I suppose), it's not my fault.
 
Nay_Sayer said:
Michel in the light of everything said in this thread, I have to ask a few questions:

1:Why did you even construct any tests at all? You're fully convinced your telepathic so was it to prove to others your not crazy or was it because a small part of you is reaching out for help?

2:Will there be future tests and why?

3:Why is it you take in posts [humor or not] that say they can hear your thoughts but ignore and dismiss the ones that don't?
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1. I am trying to understand "telepathy" phenomena myself, so I do some experiments sometimes in order to study it. Also, I would like to have "my telepathy" "recognized".
2. Possibly, see 1.
3. I examine all answers and all posts in the same spirit of objectivity. See for example the analysis of the results of the second test I did on this forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9516155#post9516155), I studied all 22 valid numerical answers. It often surprises me that you cannot stand credibility ratings, because it's an excellent and logical idea.
 
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