New telepathy test, the sequel.

No. He believes all his tests are more than sufficient for everyone and is confounded as to why his esp abilities are not as readily obvious to everyone as they are to him.

I think it's rather more basic, and infinitely more paranoid, than that. Hasn't Michel stated in the past that he believes that everyone in the world is already reading his thoughts and that there is a worldwide criminal conspiracy to cover this fact up? His "tests" are not designed to demonstrate to everyone else in the world that telepathy exist; in his mind, they're designed to make everyone else in the world admit that they already know that telepathy exists, and that they're using it to victimise him. He's playing a game of "I know that you know so you might as well admit it."

Dave
 
I would agree that these posts are not serious. They are also not answers to my test, which is still active as long as it is not closed


Assume a sample size of two people (which is about the number of actual answers you get in your Yahoo! experiments). Assume a random chance rate of 25% (which is the chance in a 1-in-4 test). How many trials would you have to run to see a hit rate of 50% with a 95% degree of confidence?

You stated that you had some understanding of probability. And you stated that you knew multiple trials were necessary. So, please answer the above question.
 
Oh, the same is was true for video and audiotapes. I certainly remember audio cassettes that were marketed as "leaderless."


And with the death of magnetic tape storage, the first several pages of results on Google for "loss leader" refer to the marketing term.

I guess terminology varies between countries and industries but the non-magnetic tape at each end of a reel was always just called "leader" in BBC radio. I only heard "loss leader" as a marketing term.

Back in the days when the basic recording medium was quarter inch tape, edited with real razor blades and adhesive tape, we'd stick a few feet of yellow leader on the start of a spool and red leader on the end. (The different colours were a very practical warning to stop people playing interview clips out backwards if they had been spooled off the editing machine "tail out".)
 
I assume there is some degree of rejection of this alleged phenomenon within the public, some people seem to be ready to lie about it. One reason is perhaps that many people like the idea that they are "special", but not so much that somebody else is "special".

This might explain why some people do not talk about hearing your thoughts but it does not explain why nobody* talks about hearing your thoughts.

*By which of course I mean nobody outside the tiny number who have been prompted by non-telepathic messages to do so, such as we here.

Seven billion people, unaware of your existence, are not talking about hearing your thoughts because they do not hear your thoughts.

If even a tiny fraction of people could do so, every time you thought about your telephone number it would be bombarded by calls from people trying to discover why they suddenly got this number in their head and how can they stop hearing it. How many people do you see wearing tinfoil helmets to try to block out your thoughts? How many adverts do you see for products which might block out your thoughts?

Why do you not see these things? Because it's really, truly all in your own head.
 
Yes you have already said this recently, and the test date you cited (August 2013) was the one where I made four successive posts citing the numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 as the answer to your test. As I already posted in response to your statement.

Are you really that desperate to prove to yourself that you have the power that you claim that somebody who posted every possible answer to your so called test had a "good" answer?


Which answer of mine that you cited was "good" by your definition? The 1, the 2, the 3 or the 4? All of which were posted within three minutes of each other? So stop lying about what I posted when it is so simple to provide evidence which contradicts what you claimed.

Since you have brought this up twice now, I expect an answer to the bolded question.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12944630&postcount=1450
The answer of yours that I found good (for my August 2013 test) was this one:
Since this is Friday (6 letters), and I'm watching Oliver on Television (6 letters) and it is around 1:30PM (1+3=4) the answer is obviously 1 as 1 is not a multiple of quirty.

Norm
This answer was incorrect, but also obviously non-credible (and there is no need for any "blinding" to see it!), and therefore it was a good (though non-ideal) answer.

But actually you did even better than this in 2013, since you posted later (after your first, non-credible answer):
In the spirit of the OP, I will now give my honest answer

1.

Norm
In the spirit of the OP, I will now give my honest answer

2.

Norm
In the spirit of the OP, I will now give my honest answer

3.

Norm
In the spirit of the OP, I will now give my honest answer

4.

Norm
Usually, when people give several different answers, I use the last answer given. In your case, this answer was 4 and was the correct one. However, I probably felt that giving the four possible answers to the test in rapid succession sounded too much like a joke, and therefore should not be considered as a serious answer.
 
This might explain why some people do not talk about hearing your thoughts but it does not explain why nobody* talks about hearing your thoughts.

*By which of course I mean nobody outside the tiny number who have been prompted by non-telepathic messages to do so, such as we here.

Seven billion people, unaware of your existence, are not talking about hearing your thoughts because they do not hear your thoughts.

If even a tiny fraction of people could do so, every time you thought about your telephone number it would be bombarded by calls from people trying to discover why they suddenly got this number in their head and how can they stop hearing it. How many people do you see wearing tinfoil helmets to try to block out your thoughts? How many adverts do you see for products which might block out your thoughts?

Why do you not see these things? Because it's really, truly all in your own head.
Jack, I am really not aware of all the things people talk about, in families for example. You seem to be convinced that people would do this or that, but you can't prove it. Human psychology doesn't seem to work like that.

Did you look at the bar diagram mentioned in post #1524 ?
 
You seem to be convinced that people would do this or that, but you can't prove it. Human psychology doesn't seem to work like that.

Your process for determining whether answers are real or fake is based largely on your claimed ability to know what other people would do. So which is it? Does human psychology work like then when you need it to?
 
Assume a sample size of two people (which is about the number of actual answers you get in your Yahoo! experiments). Assume a random chance rate of 25% (which is the chance in a 1-in-4 test). How many trials would you have to run to see a hit rate of 50% with a 95% degree of confidence?

You stated that you had some understanding of probability. And you stated that you knew multiple trials were necessary. So, please answer the above question.
Loss Leader, I am on this forum to discuss about telepathy, and sometimes to do some tests, not to do moderator-assigned homeworks.

Besides, a hit rate equal to 50% is not something I would expect in general, and I would not want to construct a confidence interval around this hit rate.

I also have some doubts about your explanations for your forum name, see this definition:
leader:
6. blank film or tape at the beginning of a length of film or magnetic tape, used for threading a motion-picture camera, tape recorder, etc.
(https://www.thefreedictionary.com/leader)

This is the definition of "leader", not "loss leader".
 
Jack, I am really not aware of all the things people talk about, in families for example. You seem to be convinced that people would do this or that, but you can't prove it. Human psychology doesn't seem to work like that.

You do not need to be aware of *all* the things *all* the people talk about, offline or online. You merely need to consider the things you do hear people talk about: in the street, perhaps on radio and TV, and of course online where you can search for suitable terms to see if Google (or whichever search engine you prefer) has come across anyone chatting about hearing you.

Nobody is talking about hearing you. Think about it. This is not about the likelihood of any particular individual talking about it, it's the inescapable observation that nobody mentions it. Nobody is annoyed about it. Nobody is confused by it. Nobody thinks something you thought was funny, or rude, or surprising, or boring, or sad or beautiful.

Nobody can hear you at all.


Did you look at the bar diagram mentioned in post #1524 ?
I did not. Unless it demonstrates some behavioural trait which is guaranteed to be followed by the entire human race at all times without exception, it's probably not relevant.
 
Loss Leader, I am on this forum to discuss about telepathy, and sometimes to do some tests, not to do moderator-assigned homeworks.

You're on this forum to defend your attempts to prove that you are telepathic. You insist you're a competent scientist. Prove it by solving this very simple problem related to the statistics of experiments. Refusal is just another data point in a long list of them that show you really have no clue how science is done.

Besides, a hit rate equal to 50% is not something I would expect in general, and I would not want to construct a confidence interval around this hit rate.

Irrelevant. It can be done, so do it to prove your claims to competence.

This is the definition of "leader", not "loss leader".

Are you an expert on all possible usages of all English words, including specialized usages in different fields? Have you been paying attention to the discussion where I and several other people discuss variant terminology and practices?
 
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I also have some doubts about your explanations for your forum name, see this definition:



This is the definition of "leader", not "loss leader".

Let me guess, he actually picked that name because you mentally told him to way back in time?? (Sarcasm)

How arrogant does one have to be to discount a valid explanation because it doesn't fit their own narrative? I truly don't think there is anything he can gain from anyone replying with helpful knowledge.
 
I assume there is some degree of rejection of this alleged phenomenon within the public, some people seem to be ready to lie about it. One reason is perhaps that many people like the idea that they are "special", but not so much that somebody else is "special". Look at this question (with a bar diagram): https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090713154232AAtUFZK
(I was born in February 1958).

I just did my own search.

1958 - 792

1967 - 927
1968 - 1,017
1969 - 809
1970 - 767
1971 - 1,261
1972 - 829
1973 - 1,187
1974 - 1,098
1975 - 841
1976 - 1,109

Average - 966

1958 is WAY below the average. What is this information supposed to indicate anyways?
 
How arrogant does one have to be to discount a valid explanation because it doesn't fit their own narrative?

And how transparently evasive to sidestep the on-topic question and then latch onto an irrelevant bit of side discussion -- especially after admonishing Loss Leader for what Michel deemed a change of subject (but isn't). For the record, I was able to find an old book that referred to "loss leader" or "lost leader" in the context of reel-to-reel audio tape. While perhaps obscure, I'm satisfied it's not just made up or misused. By the way, the UNIVAC tape drive in the black-and-white picture in Loss Leader's post is rather iconic. There's a great example of one in the computer history museum in Sunnyvale, CA.

Getting back to the actual topic, Michel tried to handwave his way around criticism by vague references to statistical tools used in experimental sciences.

There are some well known statistical tools to deal with these issues (binomial distribution, calculation of p-value and so on).

Yes, such tools exist. And they are very well-known. So well known, in fact, that many people in many scientific and technical fields are required to be competent in them, such that Michel is likely to have no trouble finding people to review his methodology who are confident in them, if not outright experts. So well known that it would be hard to bluff your way through an application of them without someone catching you. And loss leader called his bluff:

Assume a sample size of two people .... Assume a random chance rate of 25% (which is the chance in a 1-in-4 test). How many trials would you have to run to see a hit rate of 50% with a 95% degree of confidence?

That's a pretty simple, straightforward question one would expect to find on a freshman statistics exam. And since it responds directly to what Michel was trying to invoke as a vague means of deflecting criticism, it can hardly be dismissed as off-topic. "There's a problem with the numbers in your experiment." "No, no, there are statistical methods to get around that." A reasonable next step in such a conversation would be, "Would you please apply those methods to your experiment for us?"

Further, Michel tries to backpedal away from a test of his competence with this:

Besides, a hit rate equal to 50% is not something I would expect in general, and I would not want to construct a confidence interval around this hit rate.

But these are not Loss Leader's numbers. They're Michel's.

If your hit rate is for example 50% (instead of the 25% expected from random chance alone), and your sample is large enough, then one generally says that an ESP effect has been found.

All Loss Leader has asked Michel to do is solve his own example problem. And if he didn't like the 50% hit rate, he could have chosen literally any other number, worked the problem, and demonstrated his case.

So no, it's not off-topic to ask Michel to demonstrate the statistics that he says underlies his method and ensures its reliability. He probably has a different reason for not doing it. It could be that he's entirely incompetent and doesn't know how to do it. Or he might realize that solving the problem for his own example will expose to a wider number of people just how flawed his method is. He keeps referring to ganzfield-style experiments where numerous trials are conducted in order to accumulate enough data for the tools he mentions to have any toehold. He ignores critics who point out that his experiment design has nothing to with the ganzfield methods.

But then Michel has to distract from his unwillingness to demonstrate his own competence and/or test the validity of his method. So he launches a challenge to an off-topic, inconsequential point: the origin of Loss Leader's nickname. It has the effect both of changing the subject and of pointing out an error on the part of one of his critics. Evasion and well-poisoning seem to be the orders of the day.
 
Michel,

You haven't shown any interest in running tests that folks here have suggested that might convince someone in addition to yourself about telepathy.

Entirely your privilege, but I'm sure you understand that readers will infer that you don't believe you can pass a standard test.
 
Yahoo Answers seems to do it again: about 12 hours ago, Satyrette Of Liberty asked a rather ironic question in the Paranormal Phenomena category:
Why don't paranormal believers have the same esteem for Uri Geller as they do for Nina Kulagina?
After all, he has managed to fool people for many decades too.
(Link: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20200108060922AAsHMpP).

But now this question, while still existing, is no longer listed in the Paranormal Phenomena category: https://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index?sid=396547173.

You may perhaps remember that something similar happened to me too, with my test question: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20200104181250AA43dsx posted a few days ago in the Parapsychology category.
 
Yahoo Answers seems to do it again: about 12 hours ago, Satyrette Of Liberty asked a rather ironic question in the Paranormal Phenomena category:

You do have a super power! The ability to run away from substantive discussions about your dishonest tests!
 
Yes, that's right, this is the list of all questions which have been asked in the last three months (no complicated algorithm required), and my latest test question is not in that list (anomaly).
Link: https://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index?sid=396547172
My question (not in the list): https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20200104181250AA43dsx

No, that's not true. My question (from one day ago) is still there. You'll see it if you scroll down the page long enough.
Link: https://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index?sid=396546444
My question (in the list): https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20200104183837AA6iinm

Hi Michel,

I'm curious, and as I haven't seen anything about this, can I ask you what Yahoo said in answer to your inquiry about the missing question?

Presumably they have moderators?
 
Loss Leader, I am on this forum to discuss about telepathy, and sometimes to do some tests, not to do moderator-assigned homeworks.

Besides, a hit rate equal to 50% is not something I would expect in general, and I would not want to construct a confidence interval around this hit rate.


But you chose it. You said that a sufficient number of 1-in-4 tests could show a hit rate of 50%. You did this in defence of your 1-in-4 tests. You did it in support of the idea that statistics could show that even a test of that limited quality could show an effect.

JayUtah found the post where you personally proposed those numbers:


But these are not Loss Leader's numbers. They're Michel's. All Loss Leader has asked Michel to do is solve his own example problem. And if he didn't like the 50% hit rate, he could have chosen literally any other number, worked the problem, and demonstrated his case.


And I agree. Figure it out for whichever hit rate you want. The closer to 100%, the fewer tests needed to determine with 95% confidence that the effect is not due to chance; the closer to 25%, more tests will be needed.

You mentioned statistical significance. You set the rate of success at 50%. You set the terms of the test (1-in-4). You agreed that random chance would be 25%. You assured us that a sufficient number of tests would show something other than random guesses. All I'm asking for is that you complete your thought and answer how many trials you'll need in order to show the effect you claim over and over that you know to be true.


I also have some doubts about your explanations for your forum name, see this definition:

(https://www.thefreedictionary.com/leader)

This is the definition of "leader", not "loss leader".


You know what? That's just rude. I even posted links to "leaderless" tapes for sale today.

What if I'd agreed that my name had hailed from the well-known marketing term for underpricing one item to get people into the store? Would you still decry that I was lying? Would you still pretend that I was signaling some bizarre "dual nature"?

Whichever one of my two "natures" you think is driving me now, you created the terms of your own statistics. I'm just asking you to follow through on them - for whatever hit rate from 25% to 100% you care to.
 
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What if I'd agreed that my name had hailed from the well-known marketing term for underpricing one item to get people into the store?

I gather he found the definition you provided under the heading "leader" and concluded the qualification was either improper or superfluous. In many cases it is unnecessary, but in my old media days there was a distinction maintained between "tape leader" and "film leader," they being made of different materials. In any case I've learned through sad experience that the last person I would want to quibble with over the precision of terminology is an American lawyer.
 

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