New Pentagon composite photo

[BenBurch]

Can anyone superimpose a passenger jet over the composite picture for a reference of the size of the jet and the whole hole?

Feel free, but remember it was not coming in straight when you do that.

 

[BenBurch]

I thought I would give my Google SketchUp - Fu a go on this.

I'd say that is compatible with what what we all know happened.

Its really weird to keep arguing that the obvious thing happened and having to do it over and over. Its like having to argue against people who say that Babe Ruth never swing a bat.

 

[BenBurch]

Ignore the wheels in my model. I believe the wheels were up at the real impact. These are just for general reference. I could be feet off alignment.

We have gotten to the bottom of it. You haven't. Start with Gravy's site if you truly want answers.

None of these people want real answers.

They just argue against reality to keep their hope alive that they can lie the Global Conspiracy into submission...

As I have said here before, I loathe GWB and all he stands for and all who stand with him more than these "truthers" do, but when and if I see him and his cronies legally indicted, fairly tried, justly convicted, and sternly sentenced for their crimes it will not be because of lies. To lie would make us just like he is.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Can I just say that, in my youth, I would have had a much, much more physical response to these "truth" idiots than I do now? I would have improved their looks anyway.

You would've thrown up on them?

 

[BenBurch]

You would've thrown up on them?

No, but after I was done I'd probably have [Rule10] on them. Which would at least have improved their odor.

 

[Mangoose]

Almost incidently, given the graphic proof and expert crash analysis proving no Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon, the snippet "released," purporting to show the plane, suffered by graphical analysis as well: the height of the Pentagon wall at which the "missile" flying into frame from the right is known, so too is the exact vertical dimension of the fuselage of a 757: the "missile" does not supply the proper ratio, vertically in height, when compared to the known height of the Pentagon, and is nowhere near high enough to be mistaken for the fuselage of a Boeing 757.

The vertical and horizontal proportions of the object in the frame fit very well with the proportions of a 757 at the approach angle.

If you have trouble seeing the plane (understandable since it blends in the background), I strongly recommend you view the original video and look at the area in front of the white streak.

As far as whether the length is correct, I haven't figured this out yet, but I am pretty sure. In an earlier thread, I was able to fix the location of the plane on the lawn on the basis of line of sight (that is, what buildings in the background the plane was blocking). The result is that the plane was photographed just after it had entered into the Pentagon lawn. I think the size is what it should be for a plane in that location (farther away from the camera than the location where the plane struck the building), but this needs to be verified.

Can anyone superimpose a passenger jet over the composite picture for a reference of the size of the jet and the whole hole?

I think this is still the best attempt to match the plane with the building damage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8&feature=related

 

[Gravy]

Asking him what caused this hole is not evidence of his case being faulty because he clearly doesnt know what made the hole.

He has no "case." If he isn't happy with the extent of the damage, he needs to adjust his expectations. Reality will not conform to his ignorance.

 

[gumboot]

That any could even imagine for a second that a Boeing 757, with its 125' wingspan and two 6' diameter 3-ton engines did what is seen, with its "fuselage" penetrating through three rings of the Pentagon, leaving no trace of seat rails, titanium landing gear or human remains, would be laughably "The Emperor's New Clothes," were it not treason in conjunction with the deaths of 3,000 innocents and a false war for heroin, oil, and Bush-handholding Saudis...besides the fact that numerous Congressmen and Senators appeared on Larry King the evening of 9-11 and shared their public witness of the passenger jet which swept up over Capitol Hill just after the explosion at the Pentagon...with maps of the co-linear Columbia Pike/Pentagon/Capitol Hill flight path in the next day's newspapers.

This site is for discussion by Skeptics not for the manipulative dissimulation and indirection of conformist sops and treason's tools.

There's a hole in your bucket, dear Liza.

-Gumboot

 

[iAmerican]

Let's take another "look see"

...If you have trouble seeing the plane (understandable since it blends in the background), I strongly recommend you view the original video and look at the area in front of the white streak....

Better yet, as Sovereign Citizens let's require our servants in government to cough up the Virginia DOT "Traffic cam" tape on Shirley Highway which had always included in its "view" the Pentagon and "missile" approach path; the security camera footage from the Citgo gas plaza vantage point directly at the crash site; and any of the other numerous digital, and video images captured by devices pointed at the crash site and approach, that for some "odd" reason have yet to "surface."

As if...

Death for Treason
Probity, Economy, Justice

 

[Par]

Double.

 

[peteweaver]

Where did you get that I think a missile caused that hole?

So what do you think did it if it wasn't a 757 with Rolls Royce RB211-535e engines ?

Superman ?

The Silver Surfer ?

A Klingon Bird of Prey with a holograph projector ?

 

[Sabrina]

Better yet, as Sovereign Citizens let's require our servants in government to cough up the Virginia DOT "Traffic cam" tape on Shirley Highway which had always included in its "view" the Pentagon and "missile" approach path; the security camera footage from the Citgo gas plaza vantage point directly at the crash site; and any of the other numerous digital, and video images captured by devices pointed at the crash site and approach, that for some "odd" reason have yet to "surface."

As if...

Death for Treason
Probity, Economy, Justice

1) The traffic cams don't record; they're viewed in real time by operators. No traffic camera in the entire United States records, to the best of my knowledge, or if they do, they have to be manually flipped to do so. Could you imagine the amount of storage it would take to maintain daily traffic camera tapes? We're talking probably millions of terabytes, if you're thinking digitally, or hundreds of warehouses if physically. However, if I am wrong and someone on here knows better, I would appreciate the info.

2) The security camera footage at the Citgo has been released; it showed nothing beyond a small glimpse of the fireball. Which, considering that security cameras on that site were aimed AT THAT SITE, not the Pentagon, is not all that surprising. The security cameras at the Citgo station were concerned with keeping an eye on the grounds of the Citgo station, not the Pentagon, which was across the bloody street for Pete's sake.

3) Of the videos confiscated by the FBI, I believe only a few actually show any footage of the approach and subsequent impact; the others were taken from places where it was THOUGHT they might show something useful, but upon review they showed nothing at all. All of the videos released (i.e. the Pentagon traffic camera which shot at a framerate too slow to see anything really useful, the Doubletree hotel footage which only showed the ensuing fireball, and the Citgo footage which again only showed part of the ensuing fireball) have all been released. The FBI is under no obligation to release the remaining tapes because they have been returned to their owners; namely the locations they were taken from, and as such they are private property that can only be released if the owners decide to do so. If you want that footage, I suggest you go after the businesses they were taken from, and quit blaming the FBI for obeying the law.

 

[Mangoose]

Better yet, as Sovereign Citizens let's require our servants in government to cough up the Virginia DOT "Traffic cam" tape on Shirley Highway which had always included in its "view" the Pentagon and "missile" approach path; the security camera footage from the Citgo gas plaza vantage point directly at the crash site

As far as I know, the VDOT camera images are not recorded onto tape.

http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/10/pentagono-le-telecamere-del-vdot-videro.html

The Citgo tape has already been released.

 

[Totovader]

1) The traffic cams don't record; they're viewed in real time by operators. No traffic camera in the entire United States records, to the best of my knowledge, or if they do, they have to be manually flipped to do so. Could you imagine the amount of storage it would take to maintain daily traffic camera tapes? We're talking probably millions of terabytes, if you're thinking digitally, or hundreds of warehouses if physically. However, if I am wrong and someone on here knows better, I would appreciate the info.

2) The security camera footage at the Citgo has been released; it showed nothing beyond a small glimpse of the fireball. Which, considering that security cameras on that site were aimed AT THAT SITE, not the Pentagon, is not all that surprising. The security cameras at the Citgo station were concerned with keeping an eye on the grounds of the Citgo station, not the Pentagon, which was across the bloody street for Pete's sake.

3) Of the videos confiscated by the FBI, I believe only a few actually show any footage of the approach and subsequent impact; the others were taken from places where it was THOUGHT they might show something useful, but upon review they showed nothing at all. All of the videos released (i.e. the Pentagon traffic camera which shot at a framerate too slow to see anything really useful, the Doubletree hotel footage which only showed the ensuing fireball, and the Citgo footage which again only showed part of the ensuing fireball) have all been released. The FBI is under no obligation to release the remaining tapes because they have been returned to their owners; namely the locations they were taken from, and as such they are private property that can only be released if the owners decide to do so. If you want that footage, I suggest you go after the businesses they were taken from, and quit blaming the FBI for obeying the law.

On #1- I did some research into this as well. Although my search was not vast- I wasn't able to find any DOT sites that said that they actually record traffic cameras. "What would be the point?" one guy told me.

 

[JimBenArm]

On #1- I did some research into this as well. Although my search was not vast- I wasn't able to find any DOT sites that said that they actually record traffic cameras. "What would be the point?" one guy told me.

But... but... on CSI and NCIS they always have cameras pointed right where the bad things happen, and there's always videotape of the bad guys doing the bad things so there has to be a tape of it somewhere! If TV has taught me anything, it's that!

 

[funk de fino]

Please stop with the asking him what hit it as if it proves anything.

Dont tell me what to do skip

If i seen what looked to be a bullet hole in a wall (maybe 2 inches in diameter), yet everyone claimed it was 757 crashe site, and i then stated the obvious. Do you guys really think a 757 fit caused that hole and your reposne was...

"Well what did?"

I would call you a bunch of morons!

That would be irony of a superior standard

Asking him what caused this hole is not evidence of his case being faulty because he clearly doesnt know what made the hole. He is only stating what he believes to be the obvious, which is a 757 doesnt fit in a 2 inch hole

I wanted to know his theory as to what did hit the pentagon. If he has no idea then all he has to say is "no idea"

Yet because he can not tell you what squeezed into this hole almost all members on these boards dismiss his observation as being totally inaccurate. This to me is stupid and should never be done!

Incorrect

I am not going along with or agreeing with his statements nor am i entering into the conversation what i believed happened. I am just tired of see'ing people comment stupidly during a debate with things such as "well then what did?''

It helps to know someones position if you want to attack it

To see the supposed critical thinking intellectuals snicker with joy at the site of truthers inability to answer this questions makes me want to vomit everyday!!!

I wouldnt add yourself to the critical thinkers camp skip

He believes the hole is to small for a 757 to fit into it. He has no clue what did hit but believes his observation hold merit. Please dont ask him to provide what did crash but prove to him that a 757 does infact fit into the hole.

He did not say he had no clue at this time. It was reasonable to expect him to at least answer.

Likewise, truther if you have the time please show us the reason why you feel a 757 does not fit into the hole. Scales, charts, imposed photos of a 757! Then proceed to debate intelligently!

This may have been my second question after he answered my first with a "i do not know" answer.

 

[fezzic]

On #1- I did some research into this as well. Although my search was not vast- I wasn't able to find any DOT sites that said that they actually record traffic cameras. "What would be the point?" one guy told me.

Yes, there'd be no point, in general, to routinely record what the traffic cams see. A road with cars passing through the field of vision. The point of the cameras is to allow for realtime response to situations.

There are projects where that might be recorded, for instance we had a project to see if traffic counts could be made solely from the video imagery (tubes on multi-lane roads tend to be inaccurate). And the VCRs might still be there with the hookups, but who is going to make the recordings, change the tapes, and catalog them? Nobody.

 

[Sabrina]

What about during the Minnesota bridge collapse?

Only reason I ask is because I recall seeing footage from a traffic camera an operator reoriented when he noticed a long line of cars forming and just staying put; he turned the camera around and lo and behold there was no bridge! I'm just wondering though if that footage was recorded by the local news affiliate and not the DOT themselves; seems to me that since the local news affiliates (going by the one here where I am) have access to the DOT cameras to give realtime traffic updates that they'd be recording at least segments of it; even if it gets erased and recorded over again five minutes later, they'd have the option of keeping it. But regardless, to the best of my knowledge there exists no footage of the plane on VDOT cameras because the VDOT cameras don't record their footage.

Plus, I think the camera's oriented wrong to catch the plane hitting the building anyways; to the best of my recollection the traffic camera in the area is aimed more at the 14th Street Bridge and isn't pointed in a direction that would show the area of the Pentagon that was hit. And as I live in the area, I'd hope you'd be able to take my word for that.

Who wants to bet, though, that iAmerican will completely ignore our posts?

 

[BenBurch]

I think the Minneapolis thing was the exception.

Back when I worked for Ikadega, I had proposed a digital time-synchronized security recording system that could give you up to 64 cameras all recording into 2-day circular disk buffers and with which you could simulaneously view all streams from any timecode. This was using Ikadega's amazing technology that died with the company and which still has no equal.

And the box that did this was about the size of a large microwave oven. (But which produced considerably more heat!)

 

[PhantomWolf]

The vertical and horizontal proportions of the object in the frame fit very well with the proportions of a 757 at the approach angle.


[qimg]http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7214/flt77comp1qf0.jpg[/qimg]

If you have trouble seeing the plane (understandable since it blends in the background), I strongly recommend you view the original video and look at the area in front of the white streak.

As far as whether the length is correct, I haven't figured this out yet, but I am pretty sure. In an earlier thread, I was able to fix the location of the plane on the lawn on the basis of line of sight (that is, what buildings in the background the plane was blocking). The result is that the plane was photographed just after it had entered into the Pentagon lawn. I think the size is what it should be for a plane in that location (farther away from the camera than the location where the plane struck the building), but this needs to be verified.

I did this comparison of the frame before the object appears and the frame in which the object appears, basically subtracting anything that was in the initial frame from the second to reveal any changes that are in the second.