BenBurch
Gatekeeper of The Left
Because he hates the USA, the US Military, Police, Firemen, and anybody else who works to keep our society going.
Because he hates the USA, the US Military, Police, Firemen, and anybody else who works to keep our society going.
iAmerican
Thinker
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 196
Consider The Source
Beg to differ: I, having encountered one of the "witnesses," have first person knowledge of the credibility of one upon whom you make your case. Let the psychologists specify the dysfunction, but the "witness," when asked to recount the experience, in a completely non-threatening, established, friendly environment, did the "common sense" evasive eye movement then said "It happened just like they said it did."
Hysteria, desire to please authority, or whatever the motivation...the person was clearly not a truthful witness able to "relive" the experience of the "crash," yet is accepted in the cadre you cite as a witness to that which you incorrectly claim took place.
On the other hand, Larry King Show tapes can, no doubt, be accessed which will show, to any genuine skeptic's satisfaction, the transparently truthful accounts of various personnel on Capitol Hill who, in fact, witnessed the large jumbo jet sweeping up directly over the Capitol just after the explosion was felt and heard from the Pentagon.
Almost incidently, given the graphic proof and expert crash analysis proving no Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon, the snippet "released," purporting to show the plane, suffered by graphical analysis as well: the height of the Pentagon wall at which the "missile" flying into frame from the right is known, so too is the exact vertical dimension of the fuselage of a 757: the "missile" does not supply the proper ratio, vertically in height, when compared to the known height of the Pentagon, and is nowhere near high enough to be mistaken for the fuselage of a Boeing 757. Do the math yourself.
With all the known lies and exposed perversions of the present administration and its faction, the default position for any thinking person is distrust of any information therefrom. Reputation is a b***h...theirs is a bad one, they are adults, and are known quantities. Any suggesting the Bush administration should be trusted about anything at all brings his or her own integrity into question.
Death for Treason
Probity, Economy, Justice
Beg to differ: I, having encountered one of the "witnesses," have first person knowledge of the credibility of one upon whom you make your case. Let the psychologists specify the dysfunction, but the "witness," when asked to recount the experience, in a completely non-threatening, established, friendly environment, did the "common sense" evasive eye movement then said "It happened just like they said it did."
Hysteria, desire to please authority, or whatever the motivation...the person was clearly not a truthful witness able to "relive" the experience of the "crash," yet is accepted in the cadre you cite as a witness to that which you incorrectly claim took place.
On the other hand, Larry King Show tapes can, no doubt, be accessed which will show, to any genuine skeptic's satisfaction, the transparently truthful accounts of various personnel on Capitol Hill who, in fact, witnessed the large jumbo jet sweeping up directly over the Capitol just after the explosion was felt and heard from the Pentagon.
Almost incidently, given the graphic proof and expert crash analysis proving no Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon, the snippet "released," purporting to show the plane, suffered by graphical analysis as well: the height of the Pentagon wall at which the "missile" flying into frame from the right is known, so too is the exact vertical dimension of the fuselage of a 757: the "missile" does not supply the proper ratio, vertically in height, when compared to the known height of the Pentagon, and is nowhere near high enough to be mistaken for the fuselage of a Boeing 757. Do the math yourself.
With all the known lies and exposed perversions of the present administration and its faction, the default position for any thinking person is distrust of any information therefrom. Reputation is a b***h...theirs is a bad one, they are adults, and are known quantities. Any suggesting the Bush administration should be trusted about anything at all brings his or her own integrity into question.
Death for Treason
Probity, Economy, Justice
Last edited:
JimBenArm
Based on a true story!
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2006
- Messages
- 13,092
So, iAm, dear boy, what did kill all those noble servicepeople in the Pentagon that day? What happened to the airplane full of people that just coincidentally disappeared at the same time? Why "disappear" an airplane when crashing would do the same thing?
Any coherent thoughts on this? Or am I just another one to be hanged in your kangaroo court?
Any coherent thoughts on this? Or am I just another one to be hanged in your kangaroo court?
OneShotKi11
Muse
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2007
- Messages
- 789
Please stop with the asking him what hit it as if it proves anything.
If i seen what looked to be a bullet hole in a wall (maybe 2 inches in diameter), yet everyone claimed it was 757 crashe site, and i then stated the obvious. Do you guys really think a 757 fit caused that hole and your reposne was...
"Well what did?"
I would call you a bunch of morons!
Asking him what caused this hole is not evidence of his case being faulty because he clearly doesnt know what made the hole. He is only stating what he believes to be the obvious, which is a 757 doesnt fit in a 2 inch hole.
Yet because he can not tell you what squeezed into this hole almost all members on these boards dismiss his observation as being totally inaccurate. This to me is stupid and should never be done!
I am not going along with or agreeing with his statements nor am i entering into the conversation what i believed happened. I am just tired of see'ing people comment stupidly during a debate with things such as "well then what did?''
To see the supposed critical thinking intellectuals snicker with joy at the site of truthers inability to answer this questions makes me want to vomit everyday!!!
He believes the hole is to small for a 757 to fit into it. He has no clue what did hit but believes his observation hold merit. Please dont ask him to provide what did crash but prove to him that a 757 does infact fit into the hole.
Likewise, truther if you have the time please show us the reason why you feel a 757 does not fit into the hole. Scales, charts, imposed photos of a 757! Then proceed to debate intelligently!
Locknar
Sum of all evils tm
Begging does not make your claim true; who is this witness with "first person knowledge", and how exactly can you attest to their credibility?
This has nothing to do with Flight 77 & the Pentagon.
I'd ask "what graphic proof and expert crash analysis", but what would be the point? If you want to believe the wrong/false analysis of wack-jobs, while leaving obvious flaws in this (what happened to the plane, what about the people, etc.) knock yourself out. That's the price of freedom, allowing such woo-woo to exist.
Last edited:
JimBenArm
Based on a true story!
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2006
- Messages
- 13,092
This is exactly 100% wrong. He has to prove the hole was made by something other than the plane that hundreds of witnesses saw plow into the building. Not up to us to prove anything. He's the one making the extraordinary claim, he's got to back it up. End of discussion.
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2001
- Messages
- 15,950
All well and good, but we are not talking about a bullet hole here. We are talking about a hole more than adequete to fit the plane in question.
Wrong! If you want to counter a well accepted hypothesis you should at least be willing to provide a reasonable cause of your own.
I would advise you to suck it up or get a stronger stomach. We are willing to put up with a lot of crap from CTs on this forum, but quite frankly when a surly, monsylabbic, no planer starts spouting nonsense the line is drawn and he better start getting his crap together if he wants an answer.
ITS BEEN DONE! Its been done so freaking much that even the majority of troofers don't buy into the 'no plane at the Pentagon' crap. You are asking us to waste our time.
ITS BEEN DONE!
Please stop asking us to waste our time even further on someone who cannnot even put together a complete sentence and shows almost no signs of rational thought. Its a waste of time.
And as for you, get off the freaking high horse, yours is made of twigs and mud.
Haha. What I wanted to say is that the style of your posting is similar to a truther called "Rocky" who used to post in ApolloHoax(until he was banned after flaming on everybody).
Swing Dangler
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,050
Can anyone superimpose a passenger jet over the composite picture for a reference of the size of the jet and the whole hole?
Last edited:
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2001
- Messages
- 15,950
Go right ahead.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
It's already been done from the top view. From this view it would look distorted because the plane hit at an angle. But you already knew this, right?
Reality Believer
Muse
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2007
- Messages
- 716
I thought I would give my Google SketchUp - Fu a go on this. In Google Sketchup, there are pre-constructed scale models out there on the Pentagon and a 757 (in this case, a UPS freighter). By overlaying the composite photograph on the facade of the building, you can correct for 3D perspective. I put the Jet at a 50 degree impact angle from plan view and a best guess at height and attitude. I can rotate and snap "photos" from any angle, as well as change the position of the jet.
In the attached pictures, I tried to show some useful perspectives.
Attachments
I honestly don't know what happened to the Pentagon that day, but to me, it seems a little mysterious, what with the size of the impact hole and everything. But then you have wheels from a plane just on the field of the Pentagon. Video footage also released from the Pentagon didn't show anything at all really, just a huge fireball. I don't think we'll ever get to the bottom of the Pentagon tragedy and Flight 77...
Reality Believer
Muse
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2007
- Messages
- 716
Ignore the wheels in my model. I believe the wheels were up at the real impact. These are just for general reference. I could be feet off alignment.
We have gotten to the bottom of it. You haven't. Start with Gravy's site if you truly want answers.
Locknar
Sum of all evils tm
You of course have heard of the term "kinetic energy", and how it might apply to a 757 traveling hundreds of miles an hour hitting a +3ft thick solid stone wall right?
The only thing that is "mysterious" is how the woo-woo "truthers" get folks to believe there is anything "mysterious" in the first place.
Bottom line, the Pentagon impact is exactly what you would expect to see, and consistent with other similar crashes. By similar...there are lots of "heavies" that have crashed head on into mountains (for example) over the years; those accidents, the impact zones, remains, etc. all similar in nature to what was seen at the Pentagon.
Are they exactly the same...no; but for that matter no two plane crashes are "exactly" the same.
Last edited:
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 21,203
Flight 77 hit it.
To me that means you havben't looked into it enough or you spend too long reading CT sites that deliberately prevent you from finding out the real evidence.
The hole is an appropriate size for a 757. The main part of the plane is an approximate 13' circle (about 5m), that's less than 2 stories and the top part of that circle is quite hollow. The other significant structures are the base of the wings and the engines. The hole was cetainly wide enough to allow them entry while the weak structures such as the tips of the wings and the tail shattered and ended up on the lawn.
This is incorrect, the rims of the wheels were found inside the Pentagon, the nose gear was loacted outside the exit hole. (eta on reading above posts: if you meant the wheels were on the lawn in RB's picture, that model has the gear down, 77 had it's gear up at impact.)
Again incorrect, it has a good shot of Flight 77, if you understand what you are looking for, a fast moving silver plane some distance from a wide angle lenes is not going to look like a picture of a plane from airliners.net
The wreackage was found in the pentagon, the bodies of all by one of the passagers and crew were loctaed in to the pentagon, radar tracking leads back towards where contact was lost with Flight 77, the black boxes show a flight profile thatmatches Flight 77 and includes data from Flight 77 previous flight. Witnesses reported a AA 757 hitting the Pentagon. American Airlines in missing a plane, families are missing loved ones. What exactly do you think we aren't getting to the bottom of?
Last edited:
I'm sorry, you all obviously know an awful lot about this which I've not researched properly (which is why I shouldn't of posted really, sorry for wasting your time). I'll do some research tomorrow and get all the information I can. Again, sorry.
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 21,203
Ignorance isn't something that needs to be apologised for, everyone is ignorant about something (I wouldn't have the first idea about knitting a jersey for instance, or growing apples) what would need apologising for is if you were just interested in staying ignorant, which you seem to be saying here you don't. A good starting place about Flight 77 is Here having a lot of links and information about the crash. If you read up on it and are willing to learn, then there is no reason to apologise about not knowing stuff.
No not at all, I want to know the facts of 9/11 and I'm willing to read all the information I can get about Flight 77 and The Pentagon. I've bookmarked the link you gave me so I can look tomorrow. Thanks.