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Elizabeth I said:
What does :socks: mean?
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Two common meanings in this subforum:
1) Calling "sock-puppet" on someone
2) Calling "I have the socks!" which is equivalent to having the peacepipe, i.e. everyone else shut up and let me talk (was used when dealing with Christophera)
 
Hyperviolet said:
Hi Donal!

Quick clarification on the Windsor building. I am not using it as a reference point to the actual collapse (as some conspiracy sites do). I am merely referring to the reaction of the steel to the heat. That is, the gradual bending.
I could have used the reference to the toilet factory to make my point. That is all.

Thanks!
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Hello, Hyperviolet. The gradual bending of steel can also be seen in the twin tower collapses. Since the suspected area of collapse initiation in WTC 7 is internal, I don't know that we should expect to see such obvious visual signs of impending collapse.
 
gumboot said:
As a filmmaker all of these videos were obviously fakes, and badly done ones.

One of them even uses a stock sound effect with an explosion in stereo, despite supposedly coming from a handycam!

-Gumboot
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You're a filmmaker too. OK, cool.

If it's a stock sound effect, where was it obtained? How do you know it is "stock," and what stock did it come from?

How did you determine it is in stereo? Did you also test the rest of the audio to determine that it is in mono?

Are you saying that all "handycams" (whatever that means) do not record in stereo?
 
handycam is a term for a hand held personal camcorder (video camera).

TAM:)
 
Hyperviolet said:
Also about the wind point. This is a good possibility, however, im assuming the camera is distant from the building and would not expect the sound to be tthat clear cut either way.
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Try this, Hyper. Start the video and immediately close your eyes or look the other way. Just listen carefully. You'll notice that there is never NOT a least a bit of noisy rumbling sound all the way through the video.

Second, note the last two "explosions". They happen AFTER the building is down.

Pretty conclusive.
 
Hyperviolet said:
...Also our opinion of Independant investigation differ. Lets say, hypothetically, there was a coverup and the government (or a government agency) was involved somewhere along the line. Can you trust them to investigate themselves. They were appointed by President Bush, if im not mistaken? I mean, they tried to get Kissinger to head the commission. That to me is not tryin for a truly independant commission with no vested interests.
If even family members are granted subpoena powers to investigate the issue thoroughly i would be absolutely happy with their findings. Should it disrupt or support the official story.
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You seem to be confusing the 9/11 Commission's investigation, which was largely a compilation of results of law enforcement and intelligence investigations (with interviews of participants and investigators), with the law enforcement and intelligence investigations themselves. Would your new investigation not involve U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies?
 
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skepticalcriticalguy said:
Rogue networks that were in place then are in place now. The Shadow Government, maaaaaan!!!!! It got (sort of) exposed there, for a minute. We got to see a little bit of it. It continued in Mena, Arkansas. And Venice, Florida. Lots of people got rich, and dead, and President.

But I have no scientific proof, so never mind.
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Never mind scientific, you have no proof of any kind, because you get your information from the Hopsickers, Tarpleys, Renses, and Alex Joneses of the world.
 
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And who would grant this new commission subpoena power? Who would enforce their findings? Would not all of those powers have to be granted by the government ahead of time? Along with funding? And wouldn't that IMMEDIATELY give this commission a government connection?

"Of course the new investigation didn't find MIHOP! The Bush administration approved it! And paid for it! They were bought and paid for!"

You see how the truther logic works there? If they don't like the results of ANY investigation, they can ALWAYS find reasons to claim it was tainted. You're stuck between two scenarios:

1. A new investigation of some privately funded group (say, a group of journalists being paid by Charlie Sheen) with no legal power to compel witnesses or arrest people;

2. A new investigation paid for with federal money, granted powers by an arm of the federal government controlled by members of the alleged NWO.


What you're asking for is physically impossible. It is impossible, under the physical laws of this universe, to do a new investigation that would satisfy the truthers. No matter how it was conducted, they could find reason under their methodology to declare the results invalid. It would be an utterly useless exercise.
 
skepticalcriticalguy said:
How did you determine it is in stereo? Did you also test the rest of the audio to determine that it is in mono?

Are you saying that all "handycams" (whatever that means) do not record in stereo?
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"Handycam" is an abbreviation of "handheld camcorder". A "camcorder" is a compact video camera that has an integrated recorder.

Handycams generally record "in stereo" but they don't produce genuine stereo sound.

The reason for this is the left and right microphones are mounted next to each other. For true stereo separation, you have to use two microphones, separated by a significant distance. Obviously this is not feasible with field sound recording, especially off a handycam.

An audio analysis of the explosion reveals it has two discreet componants - being the left and right elements. The profile of these componants (delay, volume/pitch shift etc) indicates the left and right channel have significant separation. Left and right channel separation is impossible if the left and right microphones are next to each other.

In addition, crappy low-budget sound effects libraries (the sort you buy for a couple of dollars from a department store) have a distinctly synthetic sound because they're... well... synthetic.

The explosion discussed has that distinct synthetic sound. It's almost a sort of metallic echo. (I can most relate the sound to the distinct hollow noise heard when an A4 Skyhawk is approaching directly at very low altitude and very high speed).

-Gumboot
 
Hyperviolet said:
Hey Mortimer, sorry for the late reply.
Well i disagree in the sense that i have seen footage of controlled demolition squibs going off after the collapse has initiated. Not just before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FzxcKoOVUg
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Here's the next question to ask: of these "squibs" that appear after the collapse has started in known CD videos, how many are casued by or associated with explosives being detonated?

I'd wager none of them are. They're likely caused by the same air pressure gradients as casued this effect in the WTC collapses.
 
Hyperviolet said:
The "hard questions" are not mine to ask but those of the family members who clearly feel that there questions havent been answered. Bill Doyle, in particular, has been pretty vocal about this.
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I respectfully suggest that being vocal does not equal being informed, and that if these quotes are accurate, Bill Doyle is very poorly informed indeed:

"Isn't it amazing how they got it [WTC steel] out of this country within days," said Doyle as he addressed the cover-up of the physical evidence from a crime scene.

Doyle said he had personally talked to six different individuals who were at the World Trade Center site and described incendiary devices before the collapse of the towers.

"It's documented proof that tower 7 was not hit by a plane yet it goes up in flames then the owner of the place Larry Silverstein himself ordered it to be pulled at 4 o'clock that afternoon and all of a sudden it exploded straight down."

"We have two planes fly into the towers and all of a sudden they get blown up within an hour and a half - that's impossible," said Doyle.

"It looks like there was a conspiracy behind 9/11 if you really look at all the facts - a lot of families now feel the same way."

"Where was NORAD," asked Doyle as he highlighted the implausible gap between the known hijacking times of Flight 93 and Flight 77 and their eventual destruction.

"It was called a step-down - don't do anything - let it happen." source
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skepticalcriticalguy said:
You're a filmmaker too. OK, cool.

If it's a stock sound effect, where was it obtained? How do you know it is "stock," and what stock did it come from?

How did you determine it is in stereo? Did you also test the rest of the audio to determine that it is in mono?

Are you saying that all "handycams" (whatever that means) do not record in stereo?
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SCG, this paper by JREFer ktesbios, an audio pro and former forensic audio analyst, is worth reading. It is an in-depth analysis of a 9/11 audiovisual fraud. Many conspiracists accepted the fraud as genuine.
 
The shame in that quote about Mr. Doyle, is that reading his comments, it is blatently obvious that someone has fed him the "truther" mantra, and he is simply regurgitating it...very sad.

TAM:(
 
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