• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

New Member

I just find it somewhat disturbing that accusations of lying fly about so easily, these days.



Tragically, back in 1994-1995 this medium of the net was basically used by professionals--and few were on the internet as we know it today. I was using it in contracting at NASA-KSC. Then, it was unheard of to post and state and NOT use your real name and CV data.

Now, few use their real name and this is a license to interact with one another, as no one one would interact in real life, face to face.

Sad this. And too, this gives way to the anonymous insults and such, on a very serious level, in rapid succession.

That is the bane of this medium. One thing nice about Mark is that he went over from using 'Gravy' to his real name and was courteous for several posts. Others have done the same. Refreshing.

RAMS
 
Hey to all your JREF members. Been a reader of this board for the past few months and finally decided to join up.

My personal position in the topic is 9/11 is there is likely some government/military intelligence involvement (guess that makes me a Woo hehe) however, contrary to the believes of many conspiracists i believe there was real hijacked planes, real passenger victims, a plane hit the pentagon and 93 came down in Shanksville.

Ive come to realise this forum has some of the most intelligent posts on the topic (most notably "Gravy" and "Gumboot") and i'm interested in healthy discussion on such a vast topic with you all.

As a stauch atheist and general skeptic for the most part i feel almost dirty being "conspiracy theorist" haha.. though i have to be honest with myself and beliefs. I absolutely support the call for a truly independant investigation into the tragedy of September 11th 2001. If the family members feel that their questions have not been answered (and i dont think everything really has been fully investigated) then i feel there is no real grounds not to grant this request.

I have come here not as a preacher but as a student, and hope to earn the respect of the JREF community.

Cheers!

1) the american government was not behined 9/11, forget what you have heard , they are all lies by WILD and kooky CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!!... our commander told us right off the bat to ingore those theories...all they do is shift the blame away from the guilty...away from the terrorists.

its best to say the terrorists did it.... its more accepted.. plus silvia browne told me it was infact NOT an inside job.. isnt it weird CRITICAL thinkers are ok with not knowing where key items came from? ATTAS list
who found it? who found the passport on ground zero? who found the bin laden confession tapes? what day the shanksville crater trial pic was taken. if the WTC7 building suffered major core support beam damage, how hot the steel frame was? how hot the towers were? ect-ect-ect.....
just ask silvia browne, she may have the answers
 
1) the american government was not behined 9/11

correct.

forget what you have heard , they are all lies by WILD and kooky CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!!...

correct, wrt 9/11 truth movement conspiracy theories.

our commander told us right off the bat to ingore those theories...all they do is shift the blame away from the guilty...away from the terrorists.

correct again, three in a row.

its best to say the terrorists did it.... its more accepted.. plus silvia browne told me it was infact NOT an inside job.. isnt it weird CRITICAL thinkers are ok with not knowing where key items came from? ATTAS list
who found it? who found the passport on ground zero? who found the bin laden confession tapes? what day the shanksville crater trial pic was taken. if the WTC7 building suffered major core support beam damage, how hot the steel frame was? how hot the towers were? ect-ect-ect.....
just ask silvia browne, she may have the answers

I would imagine the people who found said items were those in charge/responsible for the investigation...like the FBI. Who should have found said evidence, passers by, bistandards?

silly silly rnc.

TAM:)
 
1) the american government was not behined 9/11, forget what you have heard , they are all lies by WILD and kooky CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!!... our commander told us right off the bat to ingore those theories...all they do is shift the blame away from the guilty...away from the terrorists.

its best to say the terrorists did it.... its more accepted.. plus silvia browne told me it was infact NOT an inside job.. isnt it weird CRITICAL thinkers are ok with not knowing where key items came from? ATTAS list
who found it? who found the passport on ground zero? who found the bin laden confession tapes? what day the shanksville crater trial pic was taken. if the WTC7 building suffered major core support beam damage, how hot the steel frame was? how hot the towers were? ect-ect-ect.....
just ask silvia browne, she may have the answers

Nice conniption. Do you feel better now?
 
Last edited:
Jowenko is an interesting point. He was initially given no details of the collapse what so ever, simply shown the video and asked what he thought caused the collapse.

After he was told teh circumstances around it, he became very withdrawn on the matter. After some time, and I assume he did some reading, likely some CT reading, he has openly admitted that he believe is was a CD because of the important info that he has been told was held in WTC7.

TAM:)

Has anyone ever followed up on the allegatons of important government documents being destroyed in WTC7? The SEC records? I can find nothing through google and the new debunking911 search engine.

I worked as a lawyer in Washington DC for twenty eight years and don't believe for a minute that a building in NYC was destroyed to eliminate some files.

Randy Mott
 
SEC records in WTC7

Some of the results of my investigation of the SEC records allegations invlving WTC7.

TESTIMONY OF
HARVEY L. PITT, CHAIRMAN
U.S. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
CONCERNING THE STATE OF THE NATION’S FINANCIAL MARKETS
IN THE WAKE OF RECENT TERRORIST ATTACKS
BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
September 26, 2001

"Within two days of the attack, we had retrieved all documents stored electronically and had commenced a review of every single investigation and case currently underway in the office with the twin aims of ensuring that we do not miss any imminent deadlines and of developing a plan for completing our investigations and cases in timely fashion. While our review has not been completed, we are optimistic that we will not lose any significant investigation or case as a result of the loss of our building."

"There also will not be any serious long-term impact on the Commission’s oversight of securities firms located in the New York area. The Commission’s records related to examinations of all securities firms are maintained electronically in a central database, and were unaffected by the tragedy. Electronic copies of examination reports and deficiency letters are maintained off-site for investment advisers, investment companies, broker-dealers and transfer agents. Records relating to open examinations will be reconstructed from records that exist at registrants’ offices and from other sources."

[Unfortunately, I cannot link it as I am a newbie. You can google it using Pitt's name etc. I'm sure].

A CT blogger called "Political Friendster' makes allegations about the impact of the lost records and Brady bonds lost, but has no factual support. The NYT in September 28, 2001 ran a piece on the significance of the lost SEC records which seems to challenge Pitt on some issues. One comment: "What is most at risk, one former S.E.C. official said, is the evidence surrounding the pursuit of the small but determined lawbreakers who work in boiler-room operations or on their own. The companies may no longer be operating, and recovering previous evidence is likely to be virtually impossible." Experts point out that the large cases had back up files, multiple sources and larger staffs involved. They would be less likely to lose continuity or evidence.

The possible impact does not seem to fit well into the CT's "Enron" and big guy theories. Although another CT site alleges: "The SEC has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed. Reuters news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency's major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom. " 911research. I recall that the SEC continued to look into these matters and that some prosecutions resulted.

These assertions about what was lost and its significance were done o a speculative baiss, right after the disaster. By 2002, some cases were obviously affected. The index to documents in a Rite-Aid litigation matter was lost (the original documents all survived). The Motel 6 case settled with major fines, after the SEC got the court to order the defense counsel to asssit in reconsituting records. The Street, September 9, 2002. (online).

That article commented: "SEC officials won't discuss how many cases may have been impacted by the terror attacks, but they claim the lost information was limited to two weeks' worth of data stored on the agency's computers that hadn't yet been backed up. But it's clear from talking to securities lawyers who practice before the SEC that things haven't gone as smoothly as the agency would like the public to believe. "

I personally know in big litigation and investigations all of the documents are copied at least twice (three sets with the original) and then numbered (Bates). They can be scanned into electronic files in the case has the budget. Single copies of records would be rare, except in small cases or brand new investigations. The Rite Aid and Motel 6 stories verify this experience. The SEC also has a rule requiring that email by archived to back-up storage.

There has been no evidence that Enron or any of the major cases have been impacted by the WTC7 records loss. It is difficult to hypothesize how someone could assume that destroying the building and its contents would destroy a government's investigation or lawsuit. Besides normal backup procedures, the retention of copies produced to the SEC by defendants and their lawyers, any regional case would have to have key stuff submitted to SEC HQ in any event.

It seems very unlikely at best tht a motive for WTC7's destruction can be constructed out of this situation. I welcome any comments.

Randy Mott
 
TESTIMONY OF
HARVEY L. PITT, CHAIRMAN
U.S. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
CONCERNING THE STATE OF THE NATION’S FINANCIAL MARKETS
IN THE WAKE OF RECENT TERRORIST ATTACKS
BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
September 26, 2001

[Unfortunately, I cannot link it as I am a newbie. You can google it using Pitt's name etc. I'm sure].

Randy Mott

http://www.sec.gov/news/testimony/092601tshlp.htm

Thus linked. Welcome.
 

Back
Top Bottom