New Disclosures on Benghazi

[12AX7]

I think the point may have been to ask how Benghazi differs from the political violence that claims US lives no matter who is president. Unless these other attacks were of a fundamentally different quality and were unpreventable, even with the benefit of hindsight, the one in Benghazi doesn't particularly reflect on Obama or his administration.

I will never get what the Benghazi obsession is all about, or what you expect to come of it. Are you thinking this might be good for impeachment or a forced resignation? I doubt it. I think it will be a tiny footnote US history.

Agree.

It's been a couple of days since I asked if this same level of outrage and demand for ad nauseam investigations existed in those previous attacks. Is it safe to assume the question will not be answered by any of this issue's supporters?

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

Great, the fiscal party is looking to waste more money on something that's been investigated to death and back. So far the only thing the repubs have done this year is waste money. Going after Obamacare again and now Benghazi for, what? The 15th time? (I know that's a hyperbole) If was the White House I wouldn't participate either. Treat these people like the children they are, ignore their tantrums and wait for them to go away.

they've gone beyond beating a dead horse. the original horse died, was beaten into pulp, absorbed into the soil, turned into grass, which was eaten by a colt, which grew up, and THAT horse has been beaten to death...

 

[The Big Dog]

On what planet does it even matter if they're "diplomatic deaths"??

They're HUMANS. They're AMERICANS. It's obscene and frankly offensive that their resume is what sets them apart, and makes this fodder for the right.

"They are Americans"? No actually they were not. No Americans were killed in any attacks listed above in this thread. Why did you claim that they were?

I have explained that this is a tu quoque fallacy, and the differences between the attacks has been addressed at length in this thread, as avid readers of this thread will attest.

Further, this entire line of argument is entirely fallacious. The fact that there were attacks on US Diplomatic facilities under Bush means that discussion of the Benghazi attacks are off limits?

This thread is about the attack on the Benghazi mission. If you wish to discuss other attacks on Diplomatic Facilities, I look forward to reading about them in another thread.

 

[NoahFence]

Agree.

It's been a couple of days since I asked if this same level of outrage and demand for ad nauseam investigations existed in those previous attacks. Is it safe to assume the question will not be answered by any of this issue's supporters?

Avid readers of the thread know it'll never be answered.

 

[The Big Dog]

Agree.

It's been a couple of days since I asked if this same level of outrage and demand for ad nauseam investigations existed in those previous attacks. Is it safe to assume the question will not be answered by any of this issue's supporters?

That is curious, because the post you are replying to was replying to my post replying to you.

By the way, wheredid you get that list? It includes the grenade attack on the empty Embassy in Athens, where no one was injured and caused minimal property damage. Just curious....

 

[johnny karate]

Regardless, I counted up all of the deaths of American diplomatic workers at US diplomatic facilities during the Bush years, and I got only one.

If I'm a Republican banging the Benghazi drum, the last thing I would do is open the door to a tally of American deaths due to terrorist attacks under Bush.

Because it's impossible to stop terrorists from lobbing bombs at the gates of your embassy or taking potshots at the guards standing outside, but, in theory, it should be possible to secure a diplomatic facility so it doesn't get completely overrun, with a US ambassador trapped inside.

A lot of horrible things seem preventable when viewed in hindsight. Like preventing the hijacking of three airliners and the deaths of thousands of Americans, for instance.

Benghazi is a ginned-up nontroversy and political football for disingenuous Republicans desperate to find any scandal to hang on Obama in a futile attempt to mitigate the shameful legacy of the last guy they had in office.

And I hate to break it you, but it hasn't gained traction in the public consciousness - and never will - for one simple reason: We were inoculated by the Bush years.

It's kind of hard to get outraged over 4 preventable deaths when thirteen years and change later, no one has been held accountable for 3000+ preventable deaths.

 

[logger]

Tho ONLY reason Republicans have latched so hard on to Benghazi is because they think they can use it to hurt Obama and Hillary.

Well, they should be held accountable. Seems its a little insight on what that 3am call would look like.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Tho ONLY reason Republicans have latched so hard on to Benghazi is because they think they can use it to hurt Obama and Hillary.

And they aren't even realizing that the public got tired of that non issue.

 

[Tony Stark]

Well, they should be held accountable. Seems its a little insight on what that 3am call would look like.

The only power Congress has to hold the President accountable is to impeach him. And since Republicans hold the House, they can do that anytime they like.

 

[johnny karate]

And they aren't even realizing that the public got tired of that non issue.

But they are content to spend the public's tax dollars pushing that same stone up the hill again.

 

[12AX7]

That is curious, because the post you are replying to was replying to my post replying to you.

They were approved by mods in the order they chose, not the order we wrote them.

 

[12AX7]

"They are Americans"? No actually they were not. No Americans were killed in any attacks listed above in this thread.

Really?

7 August 1998 Nairobi, Kenya: 12 Americans killed.

2 March 2006 Karachi, Pakistan: 1 US Diplomat (Davod Foy) killed.

17 September 2008 Sana'a, Yemen: 1 American killed.


Goalposts now with wheels! Now we want to be outraged at only those attacks in which Americans were killed, not just American faciities attacked.

 

[12AX7]

Well of course Benghazi was fundamentally different as it was preventable.

Conservatives need to get together and get your stories straight.

Because it's impossible to stop terrorists from lobbing bombs at the gates of your embassy or taking potshots at the guards standing outside, but, in theory, it should be possible to secure a diplomatic facility so it doesn't get completely overrun, with a US ambassador trapped inside.

You guys don't even agree amongst yourselves the ideas behind the Benghazzi outrage. How are you going to convince anyone else?

 

[The Big Dog]

Avid readers of the thread will recall that for a short period of time there was some dispute regarding whether Ansar Al Sharia was just a local group of jihadists, or whether they had broader scope and contacts to AQ.

This was baffling because the FBI, CIA and low level State employees all identified the contacts between those entities within HOURS after the attacks.

The "local" jihadists approach gained some traction when Susan Rice bafflingly contradicted the President of Libya on this point on the Sunday Morning talk shows (leading to a not insubstantial and completely unnecessary diplomatic crisis, for which Rice received a promotion to Obama's National Security Adviser, ).

Interestingly, more information regarding the close relationship between the leadership of Ansar Al Sharia and AQ and Bin Laden has recently emerged. Here is a link to an interesting article that I urge you to read:

Ansar al Sharia Libya leader met with Osama bin Laden, followed his 'methodology'

Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2015/02/ansar_al_sharia_liby_2.php#ixzz3ReNH5Kwd

 

[plague311]

If I'm a Republican banging the Benghazi drum, the last thing I would do is open the door to a tally of American deaths due to terrorist attacks under Bush.



A lot of horrible things seem preventable when viewed in hindsight. Like preventing the hijacking of three airliners and the deaths of thousands of Americans, for instance.

Benghazi is a ginned-up nontroversy and political football for disingenuous Republicans desperate to find any scandal to hang on Obama in a futile attempt to mitigate the shameful legacy of the last guy they had in office.

And I hate to break it you, but it hasn't gained traction in the public consciousness - and never will - for one simple reason: We were inoculated by the Bush years.

It's kind of hard to get outraged over 4 preventable deaths when thirteen years and change later, no one has been held accountable for 3000+ preventable deaths.

^ This...

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

"They are Americans"? No actually they were not. No Americans were killed in any attacks listed above in this thread. Why did you claim that they were?

I have explained that this is a tu quoque fallacy, and the differences between the attacks has been addressed at length in this thread, as avid readers of this thread will attest.

Further, this entire line of argument is entirely fallacious. The fact that there were attacks on US Diplomatic facilities under Bush means that discussion of the Benghazi attacks are off limits?

This thread is about the attack on the Benghazi mission. If you wish to discuss other attacks on Diplomatic Facilities, I look forward to reading about them in another thread.

OK, so it was a screw-up at an overseas embassy. Where do you go from there? Impeach Obama? What is the outcome you want here?

 

[The Big Dog]

Further, not only was the ambassador killed, two entire facilities were completely overrun and by the following weekend, the Administration's false narrative that the attack spontaneously arose from a demonstration outside the facility resulted in a major diplomatic issue with our allies in the Libyan Government.

.

OK, so it was a screw-up at an overseas embassy. Where do you go from there? Impeach Obama? What is the outcome you want here?

I don't think anyone has called it merely a "screwup."

In fact the attack on the Benghazi mission was simply the most notable failure of the Clinton/Obama strategy in Libya, which has proved to be an utter fiasco,

Ask the Egyptians

 

[sunmaster14]

OK, so it was a screw-up at an overseas embassy. Where do you go from there? Impeach Obama? What is the outcome you want here?

A mea culpa. And not just by Obama and Hillary Clinton for their embarrassing and counterproductive deflecton of blame to a Youtube video (and the subsequent persecution of its producer), but also by the mainstream news media which circled the wagons around the administration because they didn't want the mess to harm Obama's reelection chances.

 

[DavidJames]

A mea culpa. And not just by Obama and Hillary Clinton for their embarrassing and counterproductive deflecton of blame to a Youtube video (and the subsequent persecution of its producer), but also by the mainstream news media which circled the wagons around the administration because they didn't want the mess to harm Obama's reelection chances.

Can you provide independent, verifiable evidence for your claim I placed in bold?

 

[NoahFence]

This Benghazi absurdity is such a non-issue to the majority of Americans that it's now being used as the standard for substance-free witchhunts. For instance, "Ballghazi" in regards to the Patriots' football "scandal"

Avid readers know it's time for the right to move on.