Neurocluster Brain Model/Moses and Yogis

dafydd said:
What dream? Did you mean a dream? Do characters in your dreams carry money and credit cards? Where did they buy their clothes? Who tied their shoelaces? if you dream about switching on a light bulb, where does the electricity come from?
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Let’s ask a simple question – do these characters (which are seen in the dream) have their own consciousness or not?
Let’s suppose the answer this question is “no, dream characters do not have their own consciousness”. Such answer raises a simple question – if the dream characters do not have their own consciousness, then how can it be that these dream characters can communicate with you, talk with you, ask questions to you, answer your questions, etc – how the dream characters can accomplish such tasks if they do not have their own consciousness? If the dream characters do not have their own consciousness, then this leads to the conclusion that agent (dream character) does not need to have the consciousness in order to appear like it has consciousness.
Now let’s analyze another scenario. Suppose the answer is “yes, dream characters do have their own consciousness”. Such answer raises a simple question – who is the physical carrier of dream character’s consciousness? The most common answer which people give to such question is “non-material spirits hover beyond the material world and these spirits come into the dream where they meet other non-material spirits and these spirits communicate between with each other.” However let’s analyze the following situation. Suppose you go to sleep and you see Susane in your dream. However while you are sleeping and while you are seeing Susane in your dream, the real physical Susane is located in the next room where she is cooking food, reading book, etc. If Susane would be asleep while you are sleeping, then the explanation would be that your spirit and Susane’s spirit have met beyond the material world. However problem lays in the fact that Susane is not asleep, Susane is awake and Susane’s spirit is inside the physical body of Susane and Susane is busy with some action. If you are seeing Susane in the dream, then how can the spirit of Susane be in two different places simultaneously – in your dream and in the next room? These are very simple questions which lead to insolvable paradoxes.
However all these paradoxes can be easily solved using neurocluster brain model. Susane which you see in your dream is not the Susane’s spirit, but instead a neurocluster into which the model of Susane is written and stored. This neurocluster simulates all the behavior of Susane: how Susane moves, how Susane talks, etc. The more accurate and the more detailed the model of Susane is, the more realistic the dream scenario becomes.
The characters (which are seen/met in the dream) have different intelligence level – one characters can speak fluently, while other characters are incoherent, and third characters are unable to stammer out a single word. Why there is such difference in the intelligence level? The underlying mechanism is very simple.
If the neurocluster which models character X contains low number of neurons then character X will have low intelligence level.
If the neurocluster which models character X contains big number of neurons then character X will have high intelligence level.
The good analogy for the model of object X stored into neurocluster is the computer file. However such neurocluster is not a simple computer data file, this neurocluster also can act as executable (EXE) computer program file.
During the dreaming process the models of various characters become “alive” autonomic personalities which are able to act independently from the main personality.
Under some conditions the character which is stored inside the neurocluster can become able to communicate with the man’s main personality while the man is awake.
If the neurocluster is located nearby the hearing/vision areas inside the brain, and neural links reach hearing/vision areas, then such neurocluster may begin “tele-radio” translation for the man’s main personality and the main personality with begin to hear the voice of “God/angels/cosmos/etc” and see images of “God/angels/cosmos/etc”.
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
Moses starved himself without food and water for forty days and after these forty days of starvation
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If he had really gone forty days without food or water, he'd be dead.
(ETA: But it looks like I've been beaten to this point already.)

neuroclusterbrain said:
in artificially induced hallucinatory vision Moses received the Ten Commandments from the God (Bible. Exodus 34, 28).
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I give you points for referring to the actual chapter containing the ten commandments that the Bible refers to as "the Ten Commandments".

However, what Christians refer to as the Ten Commandments are the first ten of what the Bible describes as the Laws and Commands, which appear back in Exodus 20. These were supposedly given to the people verbally by God (and they wrote them down), as well as being inscribed on the set of tablets that Moses brought back from his first trip up the mountain. The commandments in Exodus 34 are from his second trip up the mountain.

Since what you're talking about here are NOT the Christian Ten Commandments, (which is what most would assume this thread is discussing), I thought I should list them here so that people know which commandments you're actually talking about...

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (that this thread refers to)
  1. Do not worship any other god
  2. Do not make any idols
  3. Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread
  4. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me
  5. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest
  6. Celebrate the Festival of Weeks
  7. Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel
  8. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast
  9. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God
  10. Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk
With number four, it also mentions that you can ransom them back. It says the price of the ransom for a donkey is a lamb, and if you don't ransom the donkey back you must kill it. It also says you must ransom your firstborn sons back, but doesn't mention the price, only that "no one is to appear before me empty-handed".

I'm assuming that number ten is a figure of speech meaning something along the lines of "don't add insult to injury".
 
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Brian-M said:
If he had really gone forty days without food or water, he'd be dead.
(ETA: But it looks like I've been beaten to this point already.)




I give you points for referring to the actual chapter containing the ten commandments that the Bible refers to as "the Ten Commandments".

However, what Christians refer to as the Ten Commandments are the first ten of what the Bible describes as the Laws and Commands, which appear back in Exodus 20. These were supposedly given to the people verbally by God (and they wrote them down), as well as being inscribed on the set of tablets that Moses brought back from his first trip up the mountain. The commandments in Exodus 34 are from his second trip up the mountain.

Since what you're talking about here are NOT the Christian Ten Commandments, (which is what most would assume this thread is discussing), I thought I should list them here so that people know which commandments you're actually talking about...

  1. Do not worship any other god
  2. Do not make any idols
  3. Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread
  4. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me
  5. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest
  6. Celebrate the Festival of Weeks
  7. Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel
  8. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast
  9. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God
  10. Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk
With number four, it also mentions that you can ransom them back. It says the price of the ransom for a donkey is a lamb, and if you don't ransom the donkey back you must kill it. It also says you must ransom your firstborn sons back, but doesn't mention the price, only that "no one is to appear before me empty-handed".

I'm assuming that number ten is a figure of speech meaning something along the lines of "don't add insult to injury".
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Wow. What was God smoking?
 
Even if it were true, I prefer the kind I get from Jerome across the interstate.
 
dafydd said:
Forty days without water will kill anybody, preposterous mystical claims notwithstanding.
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Forty days of starvation is not necessarily needed in order to begin seeing the hallucinations, the man might begin seeing hallucinations after shorter period of starvation.
And not all people die after forty days of starvation – some people die, however some people survive. And in the case if the man has survived such prolonged starvation, he will begin seeing the hallucinations. And the ones who have survived and see hallucinations – many of such people believe that they have entered the “spiritual worlds”. It is important to note that short duration starvation will not carry the man into the “spiritual worlds” because the body will use the accumulated resources to keep the equilibrium of brain’s biochemical reactions intact, and only long enough starvation will knock out the biochemical equilibrium when some of vital biochemical substances will be depleted.
 
Brian-M said:
... Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk ... I'm assuming that (this) is a figure of speech meaning something along the lines of "don't add insult to injury".
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Nothing so rational! It's actually very important in its most literal interpretation. See http://www.keithhunt.com/Kidmilk.html . It serves as the scriptural justification of the separation of milk and flesh in Jewish dietary law, so the medieval Jewish teacher Maimonides considers this passage in his "Guide For The Perplexed". If I remember correctly he assumed that it was a pagan practice to boil kids in milk, and he states that he looked at "Sabian books" to find evidence of such an ancient ritual. He never did, but in the 1920s inscriptions were unearthed in the ancient city of Ugarit, which seemed to describe this practice. However, more recent scholars think the Ugaritic text has been misinterpreted, and Maimonides' supposition remains unproven.
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
Forty days of starvation is not necessarily needed in order to begin seeing the hallucinations, the man might begin seeing hallucinations after shorter period of starvation.
And not all people die after forty days of starvation – some people die, however some people survive. And in the case if the man has survived such prolonged starvation, he will begin seeing the hallucinations. And the ones who have survived and see hallucinations – many of such people believe that they have entered the “spiritual worlds”. It is important to note that short duration starvation will not carry the man into the “spiritual worlds” because the body will use the accumulated resources to keep the equilibrium of brain’s biochemical reactions intact, and only long enough starvation will knock out the biochemical equilibrium when some of vital biochemical substances will be depleted.
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Still the point is, nobody can survive 40 days without water. If you can cite a case where this has happened, I would like to see it.
 
catsmate1 said:
Evidence? Literature citations?
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Here is the most up to date one of these but keep in mind, the west has been trying for the last century to disprove these.

The Yogi claims control over the physical functions of the body. It starts by practicing breath control (pranayama) during meditation. This one is different in that he achieved this capacity relatively early in life.

It's not restricted to Yogi's, see Bigu.
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
Forty days of starvation is not necessarily needed in order to begin seeing the hallucinations, the man might begin seeing hallucinations after shorter period of starvation.
And not all people die after forty days of starvation – some people die, however some people survive. And in the case if the man has survived such prolonged starvation, he will begin seeing the hallucinations. And the ones who have survived and see hallucinations – many of such people believe that they have entered the “spiritual worlds”. It is important to note that short duration starvation will not carry the man into the “spiritual worlds” because the body will use the accumulated resources to keep the equilibrium of brain’s biochemical reactions intact, and only long enough starvation will knock out the biochemical equilibrium when some of vital biochemical substances will be depleted.
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I don't think you understand the process. The man learns to control his bodily processes through his mind. It is pure mind over body. Some people just starve because they can't do it. Not everyone can actually do this and the yogi's don't promise you will. If you don't get it in this life, you are on the way to getting it in the next. This is what I can garner from my readings on the subject.
 
wrs said:
The Yogi claims control over the physical functions of the body. It starts by practicing breath control (pranayama) during meditation. This one is different in that he achieved this capacity relatively early in life.
It's not restricted to Yogi's, see Bigu.
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Other important techniques for achieving “spiritual heights” are various special physical exercises, like for example holotropic breathwork (a.k.a. pranayama, etc) which hyperventilates lungs which causes oxygen disbalance in the brain which invokes “siddhi” powers like “remembering of previous reincarnations” etc.
Various yogic physical exercises which deform and strangulate veins/ lymphatic vessels/etc (by putting legs on the head, etc) disturb the equilibrium of biochemical reactions inside the brain thus invoking “traveling into the spiritual worlds”.
Eastern esoteric schools are superior to abrahamic religions because eastern esoteric schools have workable techniques and tools for “getting into the spiritual worlds” and “meeting spiritual beings”, while in abrahamic religions only few random adepts manage to “get into the spiritual worlds” and these “spiritual” adepts have no clue how did they managed to “get into the spiritual world” and they can’t teach these skills for other adepts. Adepts of abrahamic religions explain this situation in the following way – God acts in mysterious ways, God chooses some people in mysterious ways and God gives these chosen people the ability to get into “spiritual world”. In other words adepts of abrahamic religions have no control and no workable techniques and no working tools for “getting into spiritual worlds” – there are however some exceptions, like Pentecostalism.
 
I think someone is using "debunking" the Bible as a tool for pushing his own crackpot science.........
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
If the dream characters do not have their own consciousness, then how can it be that these dream characters can communicate with you, talk with you, ask questions to you, answer your questions, etc – how the dream characters can accomplish such tasks if they do not have their own consciousness?
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They don't.

You are imagining them talking to you, which is incredibly simple to do, sleeping or not.
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
Forty days of starvation is not necessarily needed in order to begin seeing the hallucinations, the man might begin seeing hallucinations after shorter period of starvation.
And not all people die after forty days of starvation – some people die, however some people survive. And in the case if the man has survived such prolonged starvation, he will begin seeing the hallucinations. And the ones who have survived and see hallucinations – many of such people believe that they have entered the “spiritual worlds”. It is important to note that short duration starvation will not carry the man into the “spiritual worlds” because the body will use the accumulated resources to keep the equilibrium of brain’s biochemical reactions intact, and only long enough starvation will knock out the biochemical equilibrium when some of vital biochemical substances will be depleted.
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You said that the claim was forty days without food and water. Try to keep your story straight.
 
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If you think about a conversation that you've had with a person, where does that person's consciousness come from? What a fatuous thread.
 
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