Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

[dirtywick]

the grudge against musk isn’t arbitrary. i’d assume anyone following this thread or the other about twitter would have seen the mountains of evidence of his various lies, scams, and more miscellaneous wrong doings.

i don’t particularly have a problem with you or anyone else ignoring it all and continuing to act as if he’s done nothing nobody else wouldn’t do. but at least say it’s a well documented grudge.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

He was already selling them at a lower price and then dropped the model.

The RWD base model has never been manufactured, much less sold.

 

[plague311]

The RWD base model has never been manufactured, much less sold.

He didn't take pre-orders for them? Then why even make the announcement that they aren't being made at all? After all, they've never been manufactured or sold. Or are we going to split hairs over "pre-orders" and "sold"? Didn't you, personally, put a deposit on one? You talked about it more than once.

You might not view that as sold, but when I put a ******* pre-order in on a video game I consider myself to have bought that video game. I just ordered it before it was released, but whatever. It's not worth it to argue with you about it, so say whatever the **** and I'll probably not pay any attention at all.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

If you’re still interested, Tesla still has our $100 deposit from Nov 2019:

So, you’re right that it was possible to order the Single Motor RWD back then, but the price was never locked in, so I guess it can be better described as a “pre-order”. It’s that model that for now has been discontinued.

On another forum, I think the actual take up rate for the roughly 2 million preorders is a paltry 2% to 3%. So the vast majority of prospective buyers have decided to pass for whatever reason. Not a promising sign.

 

[a_unique_person]

"Promised." Corporations tout aspirational and ultimately unachieved goals for upcoming products all the time. Begrudging Musk for doing the same as literally every other CEO (and politician) is just more special pleading from people who already hold an arbitrary grudge against him anyway.

There's aspirational and then there's Musk.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

the grudge against musk isn’t arbitrary. i’d assume anyone following this thread or the other about twitter would have seen the mountains of evidence of his various lies, scams, and more miscellaneous wrong doings.

i don’t particularly have a problem with you or anyone else ignoring it all and continuing to act as if he’s done nothing nobody else wouldn’t do. but at least say it’s a well documented grudge.

Wrong.
I have a grudge against Every Billionaire and every politician who doesn't want to tax into not being billionaires.

Nothing Musk specific, just me thinking that this amount of private wealth is obscene and cannot be tolerated in a Democracy.

 

[Andy_Ross]

He didn't take pre-orders for them? Then why even make the announcement that they aren't being made at all? After all, they've never been manufactured or sold. Or are we going to split hairs over "pre-orders" and "sold"? Didn't you, personally, put a deposit on one? You talked about it more than once.

You might not view that as sold, but when I put a ******* pre-order in on a video game I consider myself to have bought that video game. I just ordered it before it was released, but whatever. It's not worth it to argue with you about it, so say whatever the **** and I'll probably not pay any attention at all.

Putting a $100 deposit on a pre order for a truck that hasn't been manufactured and now abandoned is not the same as buying it.

 

[jeremyp]

"Promised." Corporations tout aspirational and ultimately unachieved goals for upcoming products all the time.

Please give some examples. I'm having trouble thinking of any where the product arrived three years late and costing twice as much as originally advertised.

Begrudging Musk for doing the same as literally every other CEO

He doesn't though. Other CEO's don't stand up on stage and announce products that end up years late and cost 100% more. Or, if they do, they probably get sacked.

(and politician)

Not relevant.

is just more special pleading from people who already hold an arbitrary grudge against him anyway.

Waaaahhh! Please stop the mean people from saying bad things about Elon Musk.

 

[dirtywick]

Wrong.
I have a grudge against Every Billionaire and every politician who doesn't want to tax into not being billionaires.

Nothing Musk specific, just me thinking that this amount of private wealth is obscene and cannot be tolerated in a Democracy.

oh, well that’s fine. don’t mean to speak for anyone but myself.

but i would consider that invites people to argue that you’re just mad at the rich and side step the much stronger and more specific and imo indefensible criticisms of musk.

 

[jeremyp]

He didn't take pre-orders for them? Then why even make the announcement that they aren't being made at all? After all, they've never been manufactured or sold. Or are we going to split hairs over "pre-orders" and "sold"? Didn't you, personally, put a deposit on one? You talked about it more than once.

You might not view that as sold, but when I put a ******* pre-order in on a video game I consider myself to have bought that video game. I just ordered it before it was released, but whatever. It's not worth it to argue with you about it, so say whatever the **** and I'll probably not pay any attention at all.

When you preorder a video game, do you not pay full price? And, do you not have an expectation that the product will be delivered at that price?

The $100 that Musk asked for was really just to reserve a place in a queue for a car that might or might not ever be produced. There was no contractual obligation on Tesla to deliver a car at the advertised (or any) price. If there was, they would already have been sued into oblivion.

 

[dirtywick]

video game pre orders are full price

edit

can anyone think of a product or service where taking pre orders for things that aren’t going to to be released is a common practice? i think where musk differs wildly from most other businesses that aren’t super scammy is that he announces things that aren’t done or even far enough along where you could be confident it’s done with dates and prices.

like, we’re going to start production this fall on a robotaxi, when they clearly aren’t in a position to do so. promising fsd in 2016 or whenever that was when you don’t have the hardware or software for it to work. there’s a point where you start crossing over from unforeseen delays and production problems into fraud with some of that imo.

i personally don’t see a lot of difference between promising your tesla will be taxi-ing people around while you sleep when it cant currently or ever but they’re working on it, and a little box that can draw a drop of blood and lab test it instantly when it can’t currently or ever, but they were working on it.

 

[SteveAitch]

As a matter of interest, was the $100 a refundable 'deposit'?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

As a matter of interest, was the $100 a refundable 'deposit'?

Yes. “Fully Refundable” as seen in the screenshot of my “order” that I posted.

Admittedly, the buttons “Order” and “Buy Now” are a bit unclear/deceptive. Both ordering and buying lay in the future once the deposit was made and were both optional.

 

[a_unique_person]

Please give some examples. I'm having trouble thinking of any where the product arrived three years late and costing twice as much as originally advertised.

I'm sure it's happened. Their reputation, though, is ruined.

 

[SteveAitch]

Yes. “Fully Refundable” as seen in the screenshot of my “order” that I posted.

...

Oops. Sorry about that. Mind you, my next eye test (annual when you reach my great age) is due soon.

I am surprised though - he could have made some pocket change by making it non-refundable...

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

video game pre orders are full price

edit

can anyone think of a product or service where taking pre orders for things that aren’t going to to be released is a common practice? i think where musk differs wildly from most other businesses that aren’t super scammy is that he announces things that aren’t done or even far enough along where you could be confident it’s done with dates and prices.

like, we’re going to start production this fall on a robotaxi, when they clearly aren’t in a position to do so. promising fsd in 2016 or whenever that was when you don’t have the hardware or software for it to work. there’s a point where you start crossing over from unforeseen delays and production problems into fraud with some of that imo.

i personally don’t see a lot of difference between promising your tesla will be taxi-ing people around while you sleep when it cant currently or ever but they’re working on it, and a little box that can draw a drop of blood and lab test it instantly when it can’t currently or ever, but they were working on it.

Well there is the Roadster 2, where you had to put a full price, non-refundable pre-order down back in 2017 for a car that is still at pre-concept stage.

Oh wait, that was Tesla too.

 

[jeremyp]

Well there is the Roadster 2, where you had to put a full price, non-refundable pre-order down back in 2017 for a car that is still at pre-concept stage.

That's actually not true. I went through the reservation process today (up to, but not including, the point where I had to hand over the cash). They want £4,000 now and another £34,000 in ten days. The initial £4,000 is definitely fully refundable but I concede I am not sure if I can get my money back once the £34k has gone through.

In any case, I am pretty confident that, if the Roadster 2 ever goes in to production, the full price will be considerably more than £38k

 

[plague311]

Oops. Sorry about that. Mind you, my next eye test (annual when you reach my great age) is due soon.

I am surprised though - he could have made some pocket change by making it non-refundable...

I'm not going to bother arguing about the ins and outs of pre-ordering vs. whatever Musk is doing, but yes I've paid less than full price for a game and paid the rest on release day. None come to mind, but more than likely they were Everquest expansions, but it's not important.

To the hilite, the money had to go somewhere. I'd be shocked if it wasn't accruing interest while being held on to, and I doubt any of the people will receive a refund with interest. No, I don't have evidence to back it up. No, I don't give a **** enough to go look for it, but the money has to be sitting in an account of some form. Even my old apartments would have to give me my deposit back with interest.

 

[novaphile]

Please give some examples. I'm having trouble thinking of any where the product arrived three years late and costing twice as much as originally advertised.



He doesn't though. Other CEO's don't stand up on stage and announce products that end up years late and cost 100% more. Or, if they do, they probably get sacked.

Not relevant.

Waaaahhh! Please stop the mean people from saying bad things about Elon Musk.

Duke Nukem Forever?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever

Duke Nukem Forever began development under 3D Realms and underwent a severely protracted development that lasted more than 15 years. Announced in 1997 following the critical and commercial success of Duke Nukem 3D, it was delayed several times, which was attributed to engine changes, understaffing, and a lack of a development plan.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I'm sure it's happened. Their reputation, though, is ruined.

Tesla Cybertruck Was America’s Best-Selling Electric Truck In Q2

Kelley Blue Book data revealed that the Cybertruck outsold the F-150 Lightning in Q2, though Ford is still ahead year-to-date.

The report, which extracts U.S. vehicle registration data, suggests that Tesla sold 8,755 units of the Cybertruck in Q2 whereas Ford sold 7,902 units of the F-150 Lightning during the same period. So the Cybertruck outsold the Lightning by about 853 units...

Year-to-date, the Ford F-150 Lightning still remains the best-selling electric truck with 15,645 units sold whereas Tesla sold 11,558 units of the Cybertruck in the six months of 2024.

With an estimated 2 million reservations... demand isn't really the problem. Ramping up production is. And Tesla seems to be gaining some momentum there after years of development-related delays.

All said, if things continue this way, it might lead the electric truck sales charts for the remainder of the year.