Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

[The Great Zaganza]

Something some people need to get tattooed on the inside of their eyelids:

Billionaires don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Those are the dimnsions of the short bed offered by Ford.

They also offer standard (50.6 W x 78.9 L), and long (50.6 W x 97.6 L).

Bogative lied! What a shocking turn of events.

 

[Checkmite]

Evidence?

Other people have tested Cybertruck windows with various sized steel balls, and it took a lot to damage (not 'break') them. Do you think Musk would deliberately lie about the glass being shatter-resistant and then immediately proceed to prove that he is lying in front of a live audience? No, that doesn't make sense. Clearly Musk believed that he was telling the truth.

What difference does that make? We're not talking about a wide-eyed child describing their naive expectations, we're talking about a billionaire mega-corporate CEO making promises about a product that he wants to charge customers $100,000 for. We're talking about someone who, as a legal matter of fact, has an established record of lying to make money. It defies sense at this point to award him a presumption of innocent mistakes in his public statements.

 

[Bogative]

Bogative lied! What a shocking turn of events.

No, I didn't lie. I posted the dimensions of a similarly sized truck.

Considering your posting history on this board, I would expect you to understand such a simple concept.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

It defies sense at this point to award him a presumption of innocent mistakes in his public statements.

No, it doesn't.

What defies sense is that people like you think it does. Why do you do it?

 

[dirtywick]

because he lies a lot lol wtf

 

[Checkmite]

Basically. When someone has a history of lying, that IS a valid reason not to believe them anymore.

 

[a_unique_person]

No, I didn't lie. I posted the dimensions of a similarly sized truck.



Considering your posting history on this board, I would expect you to understand such a simple concept.

The short bed model. You could have picked the standard bed.

 

[theprestige]

The short bed model. You could have picked the standard bed.

Why? The Cybertruck is a short bed pickup truck.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Basically. When someone has a history of lying, that IS a valid reason not to believe them anymore.

1. You haven't presented compelling evidence that Musk 'lies a lot'.

2. Even if he did, each case should be taken on its own merits, not summarily dismissed because you say he 'has a history of lying'.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Why? The Cybertruck is a short bed pickup truck.

Why? You know why.

Elon Musk: Tesla Cybertruck will end up smaller – but retain most of its large cabin

Apr 22 2020

While Tesla Cybertruck’s production version will be smaller than the prototype unveiled last year, CEO Elon Musk assures potential buyers that it retain most of its large cabin space.

Over the last week, CEO Elon Musk has made several comments regarding the Tesla Cybertruck.

He talked about how owners will need to wrap the electric pickup to get different colors, and he said that Tesla is updating the Cybertruck’s adaptive air suspension.

Musk also talked about the size of the electric pickup truck and tweaked the design.

Tesla “reduced the size by ~3%,” made the “center line more level,” and “lowered the window sill height”.

Musk has confirmed that despite reducing the overall size of the Cybertruck by 3%, it would only affect the size of the cabin by about 1.5%:

Tesla surprised many when they confirmed that you could sit 6 people in the vehicle:

Tesla has been aiming to start production of the Cybertruck in late 2021...

Plenty of fodder for the haters there. I mean, look at all those lies! First he said it would be a certain length - even showing us a prototype of what he said it would be - then the production model turned out to be 3% shorter. That's a huge difference, right? I bet you could tell at a glance that there was something not quite right about it.

Now I could point out that prototypes rarely if ever make it into production with no changes - but that would just be whataboutism, right? Doesn't matter what others did might have done, if Musk says or implies something and it changes later then he 'has a history of lying'.

 

[Checkmite]

1. You haven't presented compelling evidence that Musk 'lies a lot'.

You have already proclaimed that Musk's lies don't count as lies because he might have "believed them at the time", so this is frankly pedantry. If Musk is merely a fool rather than a willful liar, the result is the same - every single thing he says can safely be disregarded as wishful thinking or blown smoke until you have the product in-hand and can verify that you actually got what he promised he'd deliver.

2. Even if he did, each case should be taken on its own merits, not summarily dismissed because you say he 'has a history of lying'.

Wrong. Musk isn't a scientist publishing a hypothesis or predicting the outcome of a scientific experiment, or a lawyer making a legal argument in court. He's a salesman pitching a consumer product. Reliability and trustworthiness based on past performance are pertinent metrics.

It very certainly works the other way after all, what with mass media, and Musk's fans especially, lending great weight to Musk's statements and opinions on all manner of subjects he has no expertise or objective credibility in for no other reason than because he's the one giving them. I don't think you want me giving examples of such in this thread, because the subject matter tends to trend very heavily toward political.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Is it a lie of Musk when he made a contract with a utility company or office rental and then refuses to pay them?

Because that is something that is SOP for Musk companies.

 

[dirtywick]

this thread is full of posts and links documenting his various lies and public humiliations. when i come across a new one, i usually post a link to the thread. i've been following the thread for a while, sometimes you refute them, often not. but i've read them all. elon musk doesn't always lie, but he lies when it suits him, especially when he thinks he can make money. the end.

i'll give you a fighting chance here though. in april before the quarterly earnings report, he said late this year or early 2025 they'd start production of his new affordable model. reuters ran a story that actually they dumped it and went with robotaxi (which he has been talking about starting production on since like 2019), where he called them liars.

if neither of those happens, and a ceo would know if they're actually that close to new production, he told a lie to make money. that's all there is to it. now you can tell me why that doesn't count when it happens or right now, but it is what it is.

 

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

Why? You know why.

Elon Musk: Tesla Cybertruck will end up smaller – but retain most of its large cabin
Plenty of fodder for the haters there. I mean, look at all those lies! First he said it would be a certain length - even showing us a prototype of what he said it would be - then the production model turned out to be 3% shorter. That's a huge difference, right? I bet you could tell at a glance that there was something not quite right about it.

Now I could point out that prototypes rarely if ever make it into production with no changes - but that would just be whataboutism, right? Doesn't matter what others did might have done, if Musk says or implies something and it changes later then he 'has a history of lying'.

There would be a really simple way of putting all these issues to bed once and for all.

Just don't publicly unveil a prototype that you can't deliver on in the first place.
Don't make ******** promises that you can't deliver on in the first place.

Ford don't do it.
Hyundai don't do it.
BMW don't do it.
Volksvagen don't do it.
Toyota don't do it.
Nissan don't do it.
Audi don't do it.
Kia don't do it.
Mercedes don't do it.
Chrysler don't do it.
Alfa Romeo don't do it.
Peugeot don't do it.
Citroën don't do it.
Jeep don't do it.
Dodge don't do it.
Fiat don't do it.
Maserati don't do it.

Only Musk does it with Tesla.

Yet, you expect us to believe that this is in fact entirely normal behaviour for a car manufacturer, and we just haters for pointing it out?

Wake up.

 

[jeremyp]

1. You haven't presented compelling evidence that Musk 'lies a lot'.

He claims to be a founder of Tesla

He lied about the release date of the Model 3 and its price

He lies about FSD on a regular basis

He lied about when SpaceX was going to Mars

He lied about Hyperloop

He lied when he said he had the finance to take Tesla private

He lied about the release date, price and specs of Cybertruck

He lied about the release date of the new Roadster - probably it will never appear but he has taken deposits

He lied about the release date and specs of the semi.

He lied about the Tesla robot - well, he was complicit in the presentation of fake videos

He lied about Solar City's roof tile solar panels

Pretty much every time he comes up with a number or a date for a future product, it will be a lie. If he told us the model 2 was going to have four wheels, I'd want to count them before I believe him.

2. Even if he did, each case should be taken on its own merits, not summarily dismissed because you say he 'has a history of lying'.

There is a pattern to his lying. He always overstates his case to get people on board and the truth doesn't come out until after they are committed. For example, the fraudulent Solar City presentation came just before he asked Tesla shareholders to bale out buy Solar City from him and his cronies. The fact that the tiles didn't really exist only became evident after the deal was done.

 

[jeremyp]

Why? You know why.


Now I could point out that prototypes rarely if ever make it into production with no changes - but that would just be whataboutism, right? Doesn't matter what others did might have done, if Musk says or implies something and it changes later then he 'has a history of lying'.

Unless Musk was lying at the time, the car he showed at the demo was a completely different car to the one that went into production, not a prototype of it.

Remember he said that the Cybertruck would be based on an "exoskeleton" with the panels being part of the load bearing structure? Well, the car that you can buy today uses conventional unibody construction.

And it took four years. That's not just "making changes"; that's designing and building a whole new vehicle.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Musk/Tesla lied utterly, completely, totally in their "demonstration" of their car driving itself.
It was a big, orchestrated deception with big consequences for Tesla's commercial success, as well as arguably many accidents/deaths from trusting Musk that the car could actually do what he and his engineers knew it absolutely could not.

how deep does your head need to be in the sand to deny that Musk automatically lies when he thinks it profits him; furthermore, that he thinks that that is the way things are supposed to be?
He is exactly like Trump in that (and many other) ways.

 

[a_unique_person]

Musk/Tesla lied utterly, completely, totally in their "demonstration" of their car driving itself.
It was a big, orchestrated deception with big consequences for Tesla's commercial success, as well as arguably many accidents/deaths from trusting Musk that the car could actually do what he and his engineers knew it absolutely could not.

how deep does your head need to be in the sand to deny that Musk automatically lies when he thinks it profits him; furthermore, that he thinks that that is the way things are supposed to be?
He is exactly like Trump in that (and many other) ways.

He is. When it comes to lying, they are in a league of their own. Trump has the edge though. No one can tell such blatant lies yet get so many people actually wanting with all their heart to believe them.

 

[plague311]

If anyone is familiar with Ozzy Man Reviews' youtube channel, he made a pretty funny cybertruck video about a weekish or so ago. I'm at work or I'd look it up and link to it.

Before Roger and the others watch it, it's just for laughs. Ozzy Man isn't a professional car reviewer, he's just a personality. It does show some of the funnier hangups that the cybertruck has, and includes multiple Ford trucks pulling the cybertruck out of some pretty basic obstacles.