Mueller Investigation pt 6

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newyorkguy said:
I'm not reading that much into the comments by Flake and Kasich it's what other Republicans aren't saying. I think many people, regardless of their political orientation, are troubled by the willingness of the Trump campaign to embrace a foreign government, especially one like Russia. In case anyone forgot

This is from a CNN Money report last year:

Then you add in the political murders, the jailed dissidents, the crackdown on civil liberties inside Russia.

"I love it!"

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The Russian apartment bombings is still a very obscure event and not many people know about it. Even top Obama ambassador Michael McFaul rejects the false flag scenario. Rubio and McCain mentioned it once or twice each, but it'd be kinda hard to get Trump to read.

The Russian war crimes during the Syrian war are better documented and comprehensible, though they're easy to overlook. Hell, most people overlook American atrocities in our wars, even elected leaders.

I think all of that just goes right over Trump's head if he hears it at all, but the same can be said for many other officials who on paper should be more competent and aware of them.
 
theprestige said:
On the other hand, you'll probably have a bitch of a time demonstrating that Trump knew what was going on, understood it, and took an active part in directing it.
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Maybe you are correct. Al Capone was only guilty of tax evasion, after all.
 
Given that Trump and his Team were briefed by the IC on the Russian threat, there is no presumption of ignorance.
 
Seems the big problem now is that media was too good at reporting on Trump's shenanigans, leading to a drip-drip flow of information. This allowed Trump's enablers time to dishonestly justify every piece in turn.

If the Muller report had arrived (in a world where it could have without pressure from the public in the first place) without anyone knowing what was in it, it would likely have sparked a massive reaction, and the enablers would be swamped. The events described go way beyond Watergate in scope. It describes a person who is severely disloyal to his country and who in every way attempted to break laws to cheat in an election, but was simply too dumb - or had too dumb accomplices - to manage to actually commit an indictable offence that could be proven beyond reasobable doubt.

The report shows clearly that Trump is bent as all hell, and it's a road map to impeachment.

None of this changes the fact that impeachment would not result in a conviction, because the GOP is still too corrupt for that to happen.
 
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I don't want to see him impeached. The 46% of U.S. voters who chose Trump knew exactly what kind of man he was, none of this is a surprise. Loyalty to the United States? If Russia had offered him a deal that was "too good to turn down," but required Trump to renounce his U.S. citizenship and become a Russian citizen, is anyone naive enough to think he wouldn't have done it in a heartbeat? He's not politically correct, that's why they love him so.

I want to see him rejected at the polls, I want to see him become one of the few incumbent presidents to be voted out of office. I want to see the American electorate tell him, "Eff you!"
 
newyorkguy said:
I don't want to see him impeached. The 46% of U.S. voters who chose Trump knew exactly what kind of man he was, none of this is a surprise. Loyalty to the United States? If Russia had offered him a deal that was "too good to turn down," but required Trump to renounce his U.S. citizenship and become a Russian citizen, is anyone naive enough to think he wouldn't have done it in a heartbeat? He's not politically correct, that's why they love him so.

I want to see him rejected at the polls, I want to see him become one of the few incumbent presidents to be voted out of office. I want to see the American electorate tell him, "Eff you!"
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I suppose it depends on whether you think it's more important for Trump to be told "eff you" by the public, or for the US government to show that there are consequences for acting like Trump has and thereby discouraging future presidents from doing the same things, as well as demonstrating to hostile foreign powers that they cannot interfere in US elections with impunity. Because that's the real question - is it about Trump, or is it about America?
 
I'd like impeach proceedings happen. Republicans will protect him, the public will vote Trump and the Republicans out. Then the incoming president has Trump and all the other criminals involved prosecuted and jailed as appropriate.
 
My opinion on the impeach vs vote-him-out question is that impeachment is the principled action, but waiting for the next election is the pragmatic choice.

The situation we find ourselves in is exactly the kind of problem impeachment was meant to solve: a corrupt, probably compromised, President is committing crimes and needs to be removed to protect the country. It really couldn’t be a better fit of problem and response. However, In the 230ish years since the Constitution was written, we have developed political parties so entrenched that the likelihood of Trump actually being removed, due to the “R” after his name, is so low as to be approximately zero. If the Clinton impeachment is any guide, a failed attempt at removal will likely solidify Trump’s dwindling support with his base and make him harder to vote out in 2020.

Defeating his re-election is not a lock, but it does have a better chance of being successful than impeachment or impeachment followed by voting him out.
 
An impeachment proceeding would be very divisive. I agree with Nancy Pelosi. Trump isn't worth it.
Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country. And he’s just not worth it.” Nancy Pelosi Amy Davidson Sorkin in The New Yorker
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The country is already divided. It's Trump's cult vs everyone else. Impeachment will neither make it more or less divided. Claiming so is as silly as saying to act civil, otherwise the Republicans will play dirty....
 
thaiboxerken said:
The country is already divided. It's Trump's cult vs everyone else. Impeachment will neither make it more or less divided.
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Maybe I’m being naive, but I get the impression that Trump’s 2016 support is fraying at the edges. I could be wrong that impeachment would be a principled act of futility, but do you doubt that his escape from removal would be spun far and wide as evidence that Trump was not committing crimes?
 
Upchurch said:
Maybe I’m being naive, but I get the impression that Trump’s 2016 support is fraying at the edges. I could be wrong that impeachment would be a principled act of futility, but do you doubt that his escape from removal would be spun far and wide as evidence that Trump was not committing crimes?
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Trumpublicans will spin it either way. We should not be making decisions based on what his cult will or won't do.
 
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