MonsterTalk.org - Word!

[LTC8K6]

We have been able to use hair itself for DNA testing for a while now. No root needed. The first mitochondrial DNA testing of hair in a criminal trial was way back in 1996.

 

[EHocking]

That is what gets me. Isnt the root of hair the main source for DNA extraction? Without the follicle, I am pretty sure there is no source to extract the DNA.

DNA analysis can be done on hair, if the hair has the root nuclear DNA analysis is the most accurate (i.e. can identify an individual), if the root is absent, mitochondrial DNA analysis is used. mtDNA is capable of narrowing down a list of suspects - certainly sufficient to identify a species. Also, mtDNA is very resistant to degradation, so identifying a mammoth from it's hair is not that unbelievable. Astonishing, yes, but not beyond the realms of the method.

 

[desertgal]

I am not so sure about Meldrum. Henner Fahrenbach, who has worked with Meldrum concerning hair, has stated that Meldrum has said to have come across unknown hair samples.

If you would like to reach Fahrenbach, you can either IM him on Hennerf or contact him at HennerF@aol.com

I have no desire to email him. You claim that Fahrenbach has stated that Meldrum has said to have come across unknown hair samples-please provide a source for your claim. IOW, get off your lazy butt and actually prove at least one of your statements.

Or are you attributing a quote to Fahrenbach that he never actually said, in the same way you do with people here?

 

[doctoratlantis]

Feed Repair

A couple of people contacted me with issues subscribing to the podcast. In the original feed I left out the www before the address. This has been fixed but adding it in manually makes Viigo and NewsBreak work.

I've submitted the feed to i-tunes, zune, podcast pickle - hopefully it'll show up in those feeds soon.

Again: Episode #2 will be discussing the Patterson Gimlin film and the rise of "The Legend of Bigfoot" with author Mike McLeod. If you have any questions please shoot them over to us at "contact@monstertalk.org".

Thanks!

 

[SezMe]

Also, mtDNA is very resistant to degradation, so identifying a mammoth from it's hair is not that unbelievable. Astonishing, yes, but not beyond the realms of the method.

Even more astonishing is that recently portiions of DNA have been extracted from dino bones it is, under the right conditions, quite resistant to decay.

 

[doctoratlantis]

Even more astonishing is that recently portiions of DNA have been extracted from dino bones it is, under the right conditions, quite resistant to decay.

I don't think so. You may be misremembering the recent discovery of preserved Dinosaur protein?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090501-oldest-dinosaur-proteins.html

AFAIK the oldest DNA is not even close to getting to 65+ million years ago.
In the 1990's I think they found some close to 400,000 years old - but if you have info to the contrary, please post a link! That's be awesome.

Update: A NYT article that claims 40,000,000 for insect DNA- but that's still 25 million years too young for dinos.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/25/u...tinct-bee-yields-oldest-genetic-material.html

 

[kitakaze]

I don't think so. You may be misremembering the recent discovery of preserved Dinosaur protein?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090501-oldest-dinosaur-proteins.html

From DocAt's link:

The research was led by the team behind the controversial 2007 discovery of protein from similar soft tissues in 68-million-year-old Tyrannosaurus rex bones.

I've recently been on a big kick about researching theropod evolution, dromeosaurs, and bird evolution. While sifting around the internet I came across a program on the above discovery...

Dinosaur to Bird Evolution

If anyone is interested in this completely OT subject, they can learn more at the following links...

The Dinosaur Feather Mystery

The Four-Winged Dinosaur

 

[kitakaze]

Our next guest is going to be Michael McLeod, author of the new book "Anatomy of a Beast". It tells the story of Ivan Sanderson, Patterson, and the birth of the Bigfoot Legend. (Although I'm sure MANY of the readers of the JREF forums will know most of these details, and perhaps dispute them.) Still, ya might enjoy the show. We certainly got a lot of interesting info out of Dr. Disotell.

Hope y'all like it - you're the target audience.

DocAt, here are some links to our previous discussions regarding Joshua Blu Buhs' Big Foot: The Life and Times of a Legend and Michael McLeod's Anatomy of a Beast: Obsession and Myth on the Trail of Bigfoot. William Parcher's first post then my first response (to skip a lot of unrelated stuff in between):

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4785560#post4785560

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4801396#post4801396

Here is a University of California Press podcast interview with Michael McLeod which is very good...

http://www.ucpress.edu/podcast/?file=11135

 

[doctoratlantis]

DocAt, here are some links to our previous discuussions regarding Joshua Blu Buhs' Big Foot: The Life and Times of a Legend and Michael McLeod's Anatomy of a Beast: Obsession and Myth on the Trail of Bigfoot. William Parcher's first post then my first response (to skip a lot of unrelated stuff in between):

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4785560#post4785560

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4801396#post4801396

Here is a University of California Press podcast interview with Michael McLeod which is very good...

http://www.ucpress.edu/podcast/?file=11135

Thanks! I'd already heard the podcast, but the threads were interesting. I know McLeod's going to spin some folks up - but he seems like a nice guy who has put a lot of work in on this project. The book is very good - and not super long. I knocked it out over about 3 nights of reading.

 

[kitakaze]

Thanks! I'd already heard the podcast, but the threads were interesting. I know McLeod's going to spin some folks up - but he seems like a nice guy who has put a lot of work in on this project. The book is very good - and not super long. I knocked it out over about 3 nights of reading.

I'm listening to the show again thinking of some good questions for him. What were some of the questions you, Ben, and Karen were thinking to ask him?

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Doc,

Please let me know if you'd like me to repost my notes on Paul Freeman. Alternately, feel free to do a search for all posts by me that contain the word "Freeman."

 

[doctoratlantis]

I'm listening to the show again thinking of some good questions for him. What were some of the questions you, Ben, and Karen were thinking to ask him?

Haven't checked w/ Ben or Karen - but my questions are about Wallace's techniques, the dualism of Roger Patterson, and to touch on Bob H. and the suit - although eventually we'll want to get on Greg Long and discuss that directly. Or maybe - if Bob's up to it - eventually a direct chat with him. I don't know...

Anyway, McLeod talks about Wallace's hoaxing in detail I hadn't heard before and I'm anxious to hear more about it.

And we'll also talk about the various time-lines of P&G's return to town.

And I want to ask him about Ivan Sanderson's experience with hoaxes.

What Ben & Karen will ask - I don't know.

 

[doctoratlantis]

Doc,

Please let me know if you'd like me to repost my notes on Paul Freeman. Alternately, feel free to do a search for all posts by me that contain the word "Freeman."

I'll do that. We're switching to Sea Monsters and Dinosaurs for episode #3. Don't want to get over-Squatched!

 

[kitakaze]

Haven't checked w/ Ben or Karen - but my questions are about Wallace's techniques, the dualism of Roger Patterson, and to touch on Bob H. and the suit - although eventually we'll want to get on Greg Long and discuss that directly. Or maybe - if Bob's up to it - eventually a direct chat with him. I don't know...

I am now trying to arrange a trip to Yakima to meet and interview Bob Heironimus. I plan to record the interview(s) as well as take various measurements such as head, height, arm and leg lengths and see if I can get images of him from the period of his participation with Roger's film.

Until recently the main issue was contacting Heironimus without involving people such as Long or Biscardi who have a history with him. That has been resolved and it really comes down to just getting the time to set things in motion. I plan to put everything recorded on youtube as a series of videos. I'm shooting for before the end of August. I have no reason to think that Heironimus wouldn't be quite willing to participate.

Anyway, McLeod talks about Wallace's hoaxing in detail I hadn't heard before and I'm anxious to hear more about it.

And we'll also talk about the various time-lines of P&G's return to town.

And I want to ask him about Ivan Sanderson's experience with hoaxes.

What Ben & Karen will ask - I don't know.

Mmmm... giant penguins.

 

[idoubtit]

The show is on iTunes. I have successfully subscribed.

How the hell is one to keep up with the good cryptid threads on this forum? Don't you people sleep and have jobs?!?

 

[kitakaze]

How the hell is one to keep up with the good cryptid threads on this forum?

Doing this with any manner of success entails ignoring the dreck. I find these days that means staying out of any thread started by or heavily participated in by makaya325.

Don't you people sleep and have jobs?!?

Check right there under my handle.

 

[Drewbot]

Check right there under my handle.

Get a recording of BobH saying "Roger Patterson"

Get a recording of BobH saying "That's Right I'm Bob Heironymous"


Then create a mix sequenced like this, and give me credit for it.

"Ra-Ra-Roger Patterson"
Cut in a sample of Steven Tyler "Told me to WALK THIS WAY"
"That's Right... The-The-That's Right I'm Bob Heironymous- I'm Bob Heironymous..."

That would totally rock out any club you are working.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

We're switching to Sea Monsters and Dinosaurs for episode #3. Don't want to get over-Squatched!

Good call. "Monster Quest" greatly suffers from that problem.

Anyway, McLeod talks about Wallace's hoaxing in detail I hadn't heard before and I'm anxious to hear more about it.

On a similar subject, I found something related to Wallace's claims of helping Roger Patterson. Granted, I've never gave much weight to this particular claim of his, but I still thought that others here might be interested in seeing it.

That said, I have no reason to doubt that Wallace faked all the tracks that proponents try to explain away

And we'll also talk about the various time-lines of P&G's return to town.

Oh, that's going to be good!

And I want to ask him about Ivan Sanderson's experience with hoaxes.

If you ever get the chance, you should try contacting Dr. Roy P. Mackal. Story goes that he confronted Sanderson about an error in one of his alleged sightings and got him to confess that he made up all of personal cryptid encounters in his books. Sanderson allegedly said something to the effect of that he "loved to eat lobster" and included such hoaxes in his books to boost sales enough to let him eat more of it. I would love to know whether or not this is true.

Oh, and this could come in handy if you decide to discuss Dr. Grover Krantz.

I am now trying to arrange a trip to Yakima to meet and interview Bob Heironimus. I plan to record the interview(s) as well as take various measurements such as head, height, arm and leg lengths and see if I can get images of him from the period of his participation with Roger's film.

See if you can get him to provide any pre-PGF home movies that show doing the Patty walk. Also, you might want to look into the claims made here and here (in a LAL post made on 12th August 2005, 07:31 PM)

That has been resolved and it really comes down to just getting the time to set things in motion. I plan to put everything recorded on youtube as a series of videos. I'm shooting for before the end of August. I have no reason to think that Heironimus wouldn't be quite willing to participate.

I look forward to seeing those. Good luck!

 

[idoubtit]

If you ever get the chance, you should try contacting Dr. Roy P. Mackal. Story goes that he confronted Sanderson about an error in one of his alleged sightings and got him to confess that he made up all of personal cryptid encounters in his books. Sanderson allegedly said something to the effect of that he "loved to eat lobster" and included such hoaxes in his books to boost sales enough to let him eat more of it. I would love to know whether or not this is true.

Make sure you have an hour. He doesn't shut up. Of course, he may not have answered your question after he's done.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Make sure you have an hour. He doesn't shut up. Of course, he may not have answered your question after he's done.

Okay, I'm intrigued. Are you a former student of his or did you interview him for a program?