Molten Steel

[bje]

Sorry about that folks...Idid my best.

The problem is you do not know what you do not know and you're proud of it.

 

[Furcifer]

Not that this will do any good where it is needed most, but the last time we had a Judy Wood/dustification advocate, I put together a quick overlay of a portion of that aerial photo with the properly scaled LIDAR data showing the heights of the debris field. Anyone want to take a guess as to the rough volume indicated by this survey? Note - don't forget about the below-ground levels.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_150834851c2d4ec5d3.jpg[/qimg]

Hmmm, I'd guess 1/2 cubic mile of debris. Just a very rough guess.

 

[Hokulele]

Hmmm, I'd guess 1/2 cubic mile of debris. Just a very rough guess.

Here is where I jumped into that earlier discussion, with samples of various aerials, the LIDAR information, and some rough calcs. The conversation seems to have been productive for a couple of pages, then it just got weird.

 

[BigAl]

Hmmm, I'd guess 1/2 cubic mile of debris. Just a very rough guess.

1/2 cubic mile would be 5280x5280x2640 ft.

Since each tower was 210x210x1200, intact, you are way high even before it collapsed "in it's own footprint".

 

[Christopher7]

I have shown you a piece of steel from a picture I have taken. I just want you to try and guess what led it to look like it does. It was a smooth surface previously

Does it look to you that it was molten at anytime that may have caused this affect?

You are dodging and not answering . . .

I answered your question in post 1039

[FONT=&quot]funk de fino[/FONT]
Dodge noted again.
How about that steel I have posted? What do you think did that?
Was it molten at anytime?

I don't know.

You dodged the truth. The government said there was molten metal in the meteorite. So why all the doubt and discussion?

Anyone who watchs that video may indeed get the impression it was a molten metal meteorite. Even after looking at some crappy youtube videos they may still think that. However anyone who thinks this after seeing the high res photos is clearly blind or delusional.

Mr. Voorsanger said:
"molten steel and concrete and all these things all fused by the heat into one single element"

No reasonable person would interpret his statement as meaning the "meteorite" was only molten metal. Your assertion that people would interpret it that way is absurd.

Prof. Jones included this photo in his paper with the caption:
"The following photograph has become available, evidently showing the now-solidified metal with entrained material"
entrained: to trap in gas or liquid





Neither the photo nor the caption would lead anyone to think the "meteorite" was all solidified molten metal.
The paragraph following the photo starts with:
"The abundance of iron (as opposed to aluminum) in this material is indicated by the reddish rust observed.
abundance: large amount
This is clearly NOT claiming the "meteorite" is all solidified molten metal.

It is a common tactic by you, Gravy, and others here to intentionally misinterpret what people say and then call them liars based on that misinterpretation. Then you use the false allegation of lying to deny the evidence.

All your misinterpretation, doubletalk and sophistry cannot get around the FACT that there was solidified molten metal in the "meteorite".

Mr. Voorsanger's comment;

"I think it must have fallen far enough away from the internal fires within the center of the towers that it was not melted."

makes it clear that he knows the temperatures in the debris pile were capable of melting steel.

Since carbon based fires cannot burn hot enough to melt steel, it was the molten metal causing the fires.

 

[bill smith]

This statement will not be accepted without support. Please show your math estimating the volume of the rubble pile and compare it to the estimated volume of all the material in the towers. When you do so be sure to take into account the fact that the base of the rubble pile is not at street level, but some 8 floors below street level as much of the rubble will have compacted into the basements and parking garages under the site.

My purpose is to lead the horses to the water- whether they drink or not is is up to them. I could start showing you pictures of the building under construction to give an idea of how much steel there ISN'T at ground zero but there would be litle point. A quick note hough- The entrance to the basement complex was through the body of the building- the stump of which may have plugged the way into that besement area- meaning that most of the rubble [sic] was thrown on the ground outside. I repost a couple of pertinent links for your convenience.

http://www.acebaker.com/9-11/HTR/web-content/Images/HTRTitleAnim.gif animated gif
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/WTC/wtc-photo.jpg Huge photo (slow loading,zoomable)

(F11 may toggle fullscreen on/off on your computer)

 

[T.A.M.]

Yes, of course, I was trying to remember where I heard the same argurments, good ol' Ace, aka TruthSeeker, if I recall.

No relation to Mr. Smith I'm sure.

What did I miss? did bill come out as a no-planer?

TAM

 

[DavidJames]

The entrance to the basement complex was through the body of the building- the stump of which may have plugged the way into that besement area- meaning that most of the rubble [sic] was thrown on the ground outside.

Are you saying that falling debris from the WTC couldn't fall into it's basement, because the door to the basement was plugged up?

 

[Disbelief]

What did I miss? did bill come out as a no-planer?

TAM

Not yet, though he is talking about the amount of steel and concrete not "looking right." Of course, he is heading thath way as he is getting into Dr. Judy/Ace territory, so the actual no-plane claim is just around the corner.

 

[Sunstealer]

I still say to people 'please use your eyes and your common sense'.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=il...s=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

The problem you have Bill is your common sense is nonsensical. You remind me of the test done with small children where a fixed volume of liquid is put into a tall glass and then the same volume of liquid is put into a shallow glass. When the very young children are asked which one has more in they all point to the tall glass. I think it's around the age of 5 that they begin to realise this. You seem not to be able to get past this stage.

Secondly, if all this material disappeared into thin air then how did that happen and where is the material now? We know matter cannot be destroyed only converted to energy and vice a versa.

I think we all want some numbers too.

1. What thickness of thermite needed to be sprayed? 1cm, 4 inches, how much?

2. Was this needed on every floor? was it 10 floors or 96?

3. What percentage of the floors needed to be covered? 10% 50% 100%?

Please give us some numbers Bill.

 

[bill smith]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=il...s=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

The problem you have Bill is your common sense is nonsensical. You remind me of the test done with small children where a fixed volume of liquid is put into a tall glass and then the same volume of liquid is put into a shallow glass. When the very young children are asked which one has more in they all point to the tall glass. I think it's around the age of 5 that they begin to realise this. You seem not to be able to get past this stage.

Secondly, if all this material disappeared into thin air then how did that happen and where is the material now? We know matter cannot be destroyed only converted to energy and vice a versa.

I think we all want some numbers too.

1. What thickness of thermite needed to be sprayed? 1cm, 4 inches, how much?

2. Was this needed on every floor? was it 10 floors or 96?

3. What percentage of the floors needed to be covered? 10% 50% 100%?

Please give us some numbers Bill.

Fortunately most of the concerned citizens reading these pages are not small children and can use their eyes nd common sense to good effect.

1. nanothermite is the most likely culprit . Far less of this material will do what a much greater mass of regular thermite will do. More burn for your buck in other words.

2. Every floor could have been treated though I doubt that that would have been neccessary.

3. I am theorising as I have made clear all along. You have to speculate to accumulate.

 

[BigAl]

1. nanothermite is the most likely culprit

Nano-thermite explodes, Bill. Nobody heard any explosions consistent with man-made demolition.

 

[A W Smith]

assuming 95% air, A total height of 1,368 ft. Add the basements which varied in depth to bedrock between 65 to 80, lets say about 72 feet. total 1440 feet. take out the 95% air, now you are left with a debris pile of 72 feet! assuming it fell into its own footprint it would in theory be level with the surrounding streets!

And to see how close our 95% of air assumption would be, 110 storys /1368 feet = 12.44 feet per story 7 basement levels/72 feet to bedrock 10.8 feet per basement level which seems kinda tight to me. I remember the concourse at the very least being about 11 feet ff to fc. anyway. take 95% off and its a slab thickness of .622 feet = 7.46400 inches for the tower, for the basement level slabs .54 feet = 6.48 inches.

 

[phunk]

My purpose is to lead the horses to the water- whether they drink or not is is up to them. I could start showing you pictures of the building under construction to give an idea of how much steel there ISN'T at ground zero but there would be litle point. A quick note hough- The entrance to the basement complex was through the body of the building- the stump of which may have plugged the way into that besement area- meaning that most of the rubble [sic] was thrown on the ground outside. I repost a couple of pertinent links for your convenience.

http://www.acebaker.com/9-11/HTR/web-content/Images/HTRTitleAnim.gif animated gif
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/WTC/wtc-photo.jpg Huge photo (slow loading,zoomable)

(F11 may toggle fullscreen on/off on your computer)

Bill, go do a little research on what the 'bathtub' was in relation to the WTC complex. The 'basement' was much bigger than the footprint of either tower, and was filled with debris. That pile that you're saying isn't big enough is not only over 100 feet tall above streel level, it's another 80 feet deep below street level.

 

[DavidJames]

Bill, go do a little research on what the 'bathtub' was in relation to the WTC complex. The 'basement' was much bigger than the footprint of either tower, and was filled with debris. That pile that you're saying isn't big enough is not only over 100 feet tall above streel level, it's another 80 feet deep below street level.

You silly goose, Bill said that the door was plugged to the basement

 

[bill smith]

Are you saying that falling debris from the WTC couldn't fall into it's basement, because the door to the basement was plugged up?

Until the collapse became shrouded in dust we all saw a well defined collapse wave. If that continued all the way to the ground- and we have no reason to believe it didn't then only a certain amount could have gotten into the basement. In fact that would have anchored a huge pile of debris right above the basements which I don't hink i've seen on any photo. In WTC2 for instance, some stores in the basement mall still had perfectly intact merchandise on the shelves from what I've heard.

 

[Sunstealer]

Fortunately most of the concerned citizens reading these pages are not small children and can use their eyes nd common sense to good effect.

1. nanothermite is the most likely culprit . Far less of this material will do what a much greater mass of regular thermite will do. More burn for your buck in other words.

2. Every floor could have been treated though I doubt that that would have been neccessary.

3. I am theorising as I have made clear all along. You have to speculate to accumulate.

You have only answered question 2. Please answer 1 and 3. Speculate for 1 and 3 just as you have done for 2.

 

[T.A.M.]

Why thermite, nano or otherwise?

I mean if you are going on the premise that the big bad super sekrit NWO was going to use an untested (in CDs) compound, that is used not for demolition, but to melt through steel, and you are also going on the premise that they were going to do so with supersekrit technology, never seen except at the patent office, for the horizontal applicator of the thermite, then why even bothering with thermite.

I propose the NWO used a new, NEVER BEFORE HEARD OF chemical, call it EBILEX, specifically designed by their chemists for the purpose of building demolition. It was designed to eat through metal in a horizontal manner, needing no applicator, except for a paint brush, which you use to apply a thin layer around each Steel column. It is activated by a sustained high frequency sound wave, heard only by dogs.

Now, there is as much evidence for my above suggestion, as there is for thermite, so take your pick, both are EQUALLY plausible.

TAM

 

[DavidJames]

Why thermite, nano or otherwise?

I mean if you are going on the premise that the big bad super sekrit NWO was going to use an untested (in CDs) compound, that is used not for demolition, but to melt through steel, and you are also going on the premise that they were going to do so with supersekrit technology, never seen except at the patent office, for the horizontal applicator of the thermite, then why even bothering with thermite.

I propose the NWO used a new, NEVER BEFORE HEARD OF chemical, call it EBILEX, specifically designed by their chemists for the purpose of building demolition. It was designed to eat through metal in a horizontal manner, needing no applicator, except for a paint brush, which you use to apply a thin layer around each Steel column. It is activated by a sustained high frequency sound wave, heard only by dogs.

Now, there is as much evidence for my above suggestion, as there is for thermite, so take your pick, both are EQUALLY plausible.

TAM

Sheeple, you know the bomb sniffing, EBLIEX detonation hearing dogs, were removed from the towers shortly before 9/11

 

[alexi_drago]

It is activated by a sustained high frequency sound wave, heard only by dogs.

If they could make different samples that are triggered by different frequencies then they could use a sound like the deathstars main weapon charging up (only to dogs though) to detonate the floors in sequence.