[Moderated] So What Would You Think If This Were True?

[chipmunk stew]

Let's see:

* Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the facts
FAIL, facts are secret
* Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.
FAIL, evidence is secret
* Arguments from authority carry little weight (in science there are no "authorities").
FAIL, claiming authority from access to secret evidence
* Spin more than one hypothesis - don't simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.
FAIL, latched onto hypothesis as soon as Citgo employee pointed North
* Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours.
FAIL, fail fail fail fail fail
* Quantify, wherever possible.
FAIL, no numbers have been forthcoming
* If there is a chain of argument every link in the chain must work.
FAIL, conclusion that physical evidence was faked is based on faulty logic
* "Occam's razor" - if there are two hypothesis that explain the data equally well choose the simpler.
FAIL, no hypothesis explains the data as well as the EBC
*Ask whether the hypothesis can, at least in principle, be falsified (shown to be false by some unambiguous test). In other words, it is testable? Can others duplicate the experiment and get the same result?
FAIL, contra-evidence is waved off as "staged"

I make it 0 for 9.

 

[uruk]

Incorrect.

There is not a single eyewitness that directly contradicts the north of the citgo station claim.

You will find none that place the plane on the south side of the station and none that had a better vantage point to be able to tell anyway.

Were ALL the wittnesses who saw the airplane located at the Citgo?

The witnesses who directly saw the airplane pass by and impact on the pentagon would have seen the plane hit the lamp posts. Which is more than likely why they said the plane hit the lamp posts. Why would they specifically mention the plane hitting the post if they never saw it happen?

Did the witness who saw the plane coming in from north of the Citgo make any mention of the lamp posts?
Where was this witness located at the time of the plane crossing?

You do also know that there is an airport to the south of the Pentagon. It's the Ronald Regan Int'l air port.
http://www.ceo.ncsu.edu/attack/nyc-images/Pentagon_after.jpg
Look at the lower left hand corner of the picture, you'll see the end of the runway.

 

[TheGrunion]

Trip on screw loose


"Here is a scenario that I have speculated:

The orginal poles were removed in the middle of the night before and it was made to look like normal maintenance.

Pre-damaged poles were placed in the less conspicuous areas perhaps an hour before the event.

Lloyd, his cab, and the pole that allegedly hit it were placed just at/during the moment of impact by the "silent friend" in the van that allegedly helped him "remove" the pole from his cab.

No big deal for the richest, most skilled, most deceptive covert intelligence organization in the world to pull off in their own backyard that's for sure."

Absolutely impossible.

I worked at the Pentagon from 2001-2005. I'm a civil engineer with expertise in the design, construction, operation and maintenance of roadway facilities. I am intimately familiar with the portions of Route 27 and Columbia Pike near the Pentagon, both in their current and 9/11 configurations.

I'll wait for these knuckleheads to roll out something tangible before I start debunking.

 

[apathoid]

Trip on screw loose

"Here is a scenario that I have speculated:

The orginal poles were removed in the middle of the night before and it was made to look like normal maintenance.

Pre-damaged poles were placed in the less conspicuous areas perhaps an hour before the event.

Lloyd, his cab, and the pole that allegedly hit it were placed just at/during the moment of impact by the "silent friend" in the van that allegedly helped him "remove" the pole from his cab.

No big deal for the richest, most skilled, most deceptive covert intelligence organization in the world to pull off in their own backyard that's for sure."

The Star Wars Deathray/Thermite theory sounds more feasbale IMO....

 

[Lyte Trip]

In the pasted opening LC post by Lyte, he links to 2 pictures supporting his assertion that the hood of the car was undamaged. Look more carefully at the 2nd picture. The large white spot on the hood is not a reflection but actually a large damaged area where the black paint is scratched off. You can see the top of the windshield/roofline in the reflection, and this white spot on the hood is above it, so not a reflection of the windshield.

Lyte, will you take back you constant repeating that "hood wasn't even scratched?"

Nope.

It's undamaged.

That is a reflection.

Look at the flash from the camera and the capitol cab sign in the reflection.

You can see the cab sign in this reflection too. No damage.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Huh?

This has nothing to do with why the boards were taken down.

We had nothing to do with that whatsoever.

Anyway.....the question was posed here as a courtesy to let you guys prepare for the info.

So......

You can assume we have nothing and refuse to look into it.

Or you can try and come up with an explanation for how the plane could have passed on the north side of the station in case we have something.

Your call.

Peace out pseudoskeptics!

False choice fallacy.

What at least I will do, is look at what is presented, if ever, and apply scientific methodology to it.

 

[Garb]

Nope.

It's undamaged.

That is a reflection.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon trip/Picture038resized.jpg

Look at the flash from the camera and the capitol cab sign in the reflection.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon trip/Picture039resized.jpg

You can see the cab sign in this reflection too. No damage.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon trip/lloydcab.jpg

Still doesn't prove flight 77 came from the north.

 

[Skibum]

False choice fallacy.

What at least I will do, is look at what is presented, if ever, and apply scientific methodology to it.

What I will do is say, where the rest of the interview especially the part where they pay the guy 50 bucks to say that.

 

[apathoid]

Somebody mentioned the C-130 earlier and the light bulb didnt go on till just now. Anyone know approximately what altitude the C130 was during its flyover? What its general heading/location was? I've done a cursory search and came up empty....

I think I'm getting a raging clue.......

 

[Arus808]

Nope.
It's undamaged.
That is a reflection.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon trip/Picture038resized.jpg
Look at the flash from the camera and the capitol cab sign in the reflection.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon trip/Picture039resized.jpg
You can see the cab sign in this reflection too. No damage.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon trip/lloydcab.jpg

Can I ask what does the damage taxi have to prove (otherwise) to you? That a light pole didn't hit his car?


Then I must have been apart of the conspiracy since back in 1996, my friend's car while we were on our way home from a restaurant, got damaged by a light pole that was hit by a speeding drunk driver (oh and it broke off at its base) and she sustained damage to her windshield. It was kind of scary to see the end of the pole sitting between me and her. No damage to the hood of her car by the way.

 

[Lyte Trip]

Somebody mentioned the C-130 earlier and the light bulb didnt go on till just now. Anyone know approximately what altitude the C130 was during its flyover? What its general heading/location was? I've done a cursory search and came up empty....

I think I'm getting a raging clue.......

As I said before.....

Very important point.

Stay on it.

In the mean time I'll leave you guys to your haven of sarcastic pseudoskepticism until we present the info.

Smell ya later!

 

[Pardalis]

Why do you come here Lyte?

 

[T.A.M.]

fine leave us to our pseudoskepticism, and go about your pseudoresearch.

TTFN

TAM

 

[Bell]

Smell ya later!

 

[Dog Town]

Hey sherlock, there is a dent on that hood! Just to the left of center, beneath the windshield. Look again. Why did you not go look at the real cab? Afraid of what you would find?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Since LT has left the building I'll summarize Tuesday's events:
* No data was provided
* LT admitted, via non-response, that their evidence is anecdotal in nature
* LT admitted, via non-response, that (s)he does not recognize that objective evidence trumps anecdotal evidence
* LT, et al, have demonstrated how to trip every trigger on Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit

At least I got free lunch from my company today.

 

[Pardalis]

These guys are "cooking up" their new evidence just to be famous amongst their own crowd of CTists, nothing more.

 

[Skeptic4Sure]

The 757-200 engine diameter is 8 feet,
The fuselage width is 12 feet
The fuselage height is 13 feet
The wing span is 757-200: 124 feet
The total height of the fuselage and engines is 4 + 13 = 17 feet.
(757 SPECS)

The plane entered the Pentagon under an angle of 45 degrees, thus the effective horizontal lengths become length_eff = length/cos(pi*45/180)

The effective diameter engine: 11 feet (plus the mount and wing)
The effective width fuselage: 17 feet
The effective wing span 757-200: 176 feet

So explain to me again, how a 757 traveling at 6 ft above the grass was able to make cause that damage again. With a 45 ft height due to the vertical stabilizer/rudder(tail section)

 

[Pardalis]

What are your credentials, Skeptic4Sure?

 

[Skeptic4Sure]

These guys are "cooking up" their new evidence just to be famous amongst their own crowd of CTists, nothing more.

Remove the image or I will report you, or I will get him to.

He did nothing to you and unless you want to put up a picture of yourself for him to make fun of...lose it.