Miss me? (smiles)

[LightPiercingDarkness]

Oh, you mean Jesus isn't?

Anyway, before you can give us Jesus as proof of anything you should prove his existence in the first place. Can you do that?

complain, complain and complain.

Shut up and start walking.


Lyndale

 

[Powa]

complain, complain and complain.

Maybe I would stop complaining if I got even one straight answer.

Shut up and start walking.

Start walking on which path? I have to ask you again Lyndale, how do you know your path is the right one?

 

[LightPiercingDarkness]

Maybe I would stop complaining if I got even one straight answer.
Start walking on which path? I have to ask you again Lyndale, how do you know your path is the right one?

Ever hear the saying the proof is in the pudding?

That means you dont look at it...you dont wonder about it...you dont smell it...you dont listen to what someone else says about it...you dont compare it...you dont sniff it....

YOU TAKE ACTION AND EAT IT.


In other words..........walk and know. Don't walk don't know.

how much more simpler can it be explain.

Lyndale

 

[Powa]

In other words..........walk and know. Don't walk don't know.

OK, so you walk the path and you know.
Hm... Let's see. When a terorist (of a different religion) straps explosives to himself and blows himself up screeming his god's name you can be pretty sure that he believes that he's on the right path. He too ate his proverbial pudding, Lyndale. So I'll ask again (I'm sick of myself already), why do you believe your path is right and not his?

 

[DarkMagician]

Fail. Has in ..........the claim of the path turns out to be false....not what it says it is............fails to provide what it says it will....etc.

Faces?....fact.....I didnt put them there..........fact....when found....they all have the same attributes (Probably because they're vague).............fact.....on live video (when found), they hold their image.............fact..............they aint the loony tunes. (As opposed to you?)

With or without the faces..........the things I tell you about God would be no different. I don't rely on my finding for the furtherence of Gods truth.

Lyndale

Look, I have recreated your "faces" without a photo. Heck, without even a tangible paper or photo.

You see faces, this is your assertion. But connecting these with God and a hypothetical rapture is even insulting to Born-Again Christians.

To my knowledge, you have NOT provided us with a copy of these "faces" in video to prove that they hold their place in live action.

And even if they did, it might be a problem with your camera.

The problem is you seem to doubt every other explanation but your own, you fail to use Occam's Razor (a tool that almost everyone uses in this forum), and you continue to show little proof that these are, in fact, faces.

 

[Suezoled]

Hey, maybe i don't wanna share my portion of Occam's Razor, huh? huh? You ever think of THAT? So maybe LPD can't use it because I refuse to share it.

 

[Dane]

I couldn't use my computer the other day because it nearly passed away for good, but I repaired it. So now I'm back and I see about a billion posts since I was last here. Wow, people are sure passionate about these topics.

Powa,

No I don't want to rip your head off for what you were saying. I just consider what you said to be a misunderstanding. I don't know if you've done studies on religion, maybe you have. But here are some points to consider, which I will explain:

God does have the power to stop Satan and Satan's followers
God's will is not to have people be hurt or to die
God does not want to see people suffer and die

Now those seem to conflict a bit don't they? At first they do seem to. What we all need to consider is that God gives us all free will. Free will is a gift to us, a privelage, because God does not want to control us. And like with almost all privelages, they can be misused. And that is what has happened. People are misusing their free will, and doing warped and evil things. Because God does not want to take our free will away (that would show that he just controls people to do what is right), he allows and will allow suffering for a certain time. When the Second Coming occurs, all of that will be brought to an end. Those who respected their free will and followed God....are the ones who will be saved. Those who did not....will not be. Righteous people live by faith. Even though the righteous suffer, they all go through trials and some doubts, but it is a test of faith. Those who endure are saved in the end.

If God just showed himself to everybody in the world, and made decrees of exactly what he wants us to do, there would be no need for faith. Everybody would believe in God. That is why when we keep our faith in God, and live for Him everyday, we are showing our true devotion to Him, even though we may not see him or have proof of him. I know that seems as a "convenience" for Christians to explain the existence of God, but it makes good sense.

This is not an attempt by me to force feed you my religion and beliefs. I am backing up what I believe in response to some comments here. Maybe it seems strange to be a "skeptic" and a believer in God. Not really. I just have a belief in a God, a creator, a deity. But there are certain set laws in nature, and restrictions of this planet. So I do not believe in psychics (although some possibly devil-inspired people being fed some information), and I do not believe ESP, etc.

Anyway, there are many things I want to say, but unless those things happen to come up, I will refrain for now.

Lyndale,

I see that now you are basically writing out sermons now. I agree with a lot of what you have to say actually. But I don't know whether you are trying to be accusational, informative, or trying to save people. You keep typing out things that show the difference between a half-baked Christian and a real Christian. What is your intention? To help the Atheists here to believe in God and become a good Christian, or to make everyone believe and follow the same way you do? I just want to understand your intentions. You don't need to be on the defensive with me, because I'm not trying to attack you are flame you with anything.


Dane

 

[Dane]

Powa,

I forgot to mention something. You are asking why someone should believe their religious path is correct. How do we know that a terrorist with a bomb on his back destroying himself and other people might be on the right path... because he thought he was? Here is the KEY to this. It all comes down to whether you are following what God has to say, or what humans, or human's interpretations are saying. If some guy, Abdullah Mahar is telling his many followers that Allah (or some other name for God) is speaking to him and telling him to blow up people that don't believe this or that, then that is where the mistake is being made.

When in doubt, go back to the Bible and find out if what is being said corresponds with the Bible. If God doesn't instruct it, don't do it. I don't mean things like eating popcorn or playing an instrument. I mean religious-based decisions. The Bible, the Koran, neither of those say to kill other people because of their beliefs. Now for example, Mormons, Catholics. They have their own versions of the Bible, their own set of beliefs. Where they went wrong was when they added to the Bible. God didn't add to it, humans did. So the best thing to do is to go to the roots. Not all the colorful looking foliage on top, but down to the roots, where it all started, where nothing has been added on. God gives his full set of instructions for life in the Bible, and that is what to live by. If you are following that, and following God, you know you are on the right path. (Yes, I know that other religions don't use or believe the Bible. But God's instructions for us string from the very beginning of this earth until the finality of the Bible, and are written within. Other religions have good philosophies and morals to follow, but few if any follow time and history accurately like the Bible does. Some people say the Bible does NOT follow history accurately, but there is no way to prove either way. If people say the history contained in the Bible is false, then it's just as easy to say some other written document written in say....480 BC is false as well. It's all about faith, basically.)


Dane

 

[Prolix]

Dane,

It seems that your basis of discernment is what makes "good sense" to you. I agree, and you will also recognize that Paul also said as much, more or less. ( When asked how to distinguish true from false teachings he said you have to rely on common sense, or something close to this)

......... I know that seems as a "convenience" for Christians to explain the existence of God, but it makes good sense.

It seems to make "good sense" to me that an all-powerful god and an all-knowing god has also got to be an all-responsible god. And my good sense says he's responsible for the consequences of all of his actions, including the consequences of the mis-use of free-will to do evil that you refer to.

You seem to hold other humans to good-sense responsibility, not to commit terrorism, for example, but not hold your own God to the same standard.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Jesus.



Lyndale

That's what I said - jesus this guy is an idiot.

Again, where is the evidence that god loves me?

gOD ISN'T

 

[Paladin]

"Man is a Religious Animal. Man is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -- several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven." -- Mark Twain, Letters From the Earth

 

[Powa]

God does have the power to stop Satan and Satan's followers
God's will is not to have people be hurt or to die
God does not want to see people suffer and die

How, then, do you explain terminally ill children? Is it God's will that they suffer and die or is it their own free will to die?

BTW Dane, I may disagree with what you say but at least you seem to be able to discuss your beliefs (unlike some people on this forum [cough]Lyndale[/cough])

 

[Dane]

Prolix, Powa,

Yes I do hold God to a high standard. The ultimate standard. I didn't really allow myself to elaborate on it, because there is so much you can say, if you understand what I mean. Basically God wants to do what is right and just for the human race. It doesn't seem like suffering is the just thing for God to allow, but it is. Consider this:

When Satan was cast out of heaven with the angels that followed him, God allowed those angels, and allowed Satan the choice to rebel, to think for themselves. If God hadn't allowed that, He would have just had compliant robots that served Him. That is an UNjust thing for a God to do. So God allowed the rebellion. So then we have Satan tempting and influencing people on the earth, trying to get them to rebel. Often though, Satan will work in disguise and subtlely to cause a gradual fall and rebellion. If God prevented us from hurting each other, from evil to pain the good, God would be shielding His people from the results of free-will. Even though seeing the pain and witnessing catastrophies makes it seem as though God doesn't care, it is simply the awful result of rebellion. This really pleases Satan. Because now we have people that are blaming GOD for the evil and the pain, when it is really Satan who has caused it all from the very start. But then there IS an end to it all. God won't just allow evil to triumph and rule over good for eternity. When the 2nd Coming happens, Satan and evil people will finally pay the consequences of eternal damnation/death. And those that will be saved will be the victors through the pain they've experienced. Also, the suffering serves as a true test of God's people to hold fast to God even when hope seems hazy or obscured.

When you look at all of these things, and place all of the pieces together, they all fit, with no pieces missing. If God had done anything differently, asserted any different control over his creations, then people would cry out against Him for being a dictator (that is, if people still had the will to rebel). If God had no plan to redeem those that have suffered in the end, we would all think God is cruel to not want to help His people. Jesus dying on the cross (which way too many people take for granted, or never really think about) gave everyone a chance to be saved in the end. That is why we have a chance for life eternal. Having everyone's sins as a giant burden on his back as he died on the cross, experiencing the weight and the pain of all those sins and the torture of his oppressors was the sacrifice that gave us a second chance. Some people understand that and give their own lives to Him in thankfulness, and so that they may be saved, and then some people don't care, or don't believe it, or ignore it.

Anyway, that is basically the explanation as to why all that God does is truly just. I'm sorry it was so much, but I try not to leave too many things out (although I could have).

-Dane

Btw, Powa, I think that should explain the reason for terminally ill children and other pain that you were referring to. If it doesn't, let me know and I probably CAN elaborate if it's something that you really want explained better.

 

[LightPiercingDarkness]

OK, so you walk the path and you know.
Hm... Let's see. When a terorist (of a different religion) straps explosives to himself and blows himself up screeming his god's name you can be pretty sure that he believes that he's on the right path. He too ate his proverbial pudding, Lyndale. So I'll ask again (I'm sick of myself already), why do you believe your path is right and not his?

The devil is always there trying to switch the pudding. When it happens.....does it happen by chance or choice?

Who know's.

This I do know. The God of the King James Version 1611 is.
I know He is, because I put His words "to the test", they have proven unfailable.


I also know if I stood in front of a table with "many" different puddings..........I'd chose one and not stand there just looking.

Doing nothing will get you nothing.


Lyndale

 

[LightPiercingDarkness]

I couldn't use my computer the other day because it nearly passed away for good, but I repaired it. So now I'm back and I see about a billion posts since I was last here. Wow, people are sure passionate about these topics.

Powa,

No I don't want to rip your head off for what you were saying. I just consider what you said to be a misunderstanding. I don't know if you've done studies on religion, maybe you have. But here are some points to consider, which I will explain:

God does have the power to stop Satan and Satan's followers
God's will is not to have people be hurt or to die
God does not want to see people suffer and die

Now those seem to conflict a bit don't they? At first they do seem to. What we all need to consider is that God gives us all free will. Free will is a gift to us, a privelage, because God does not want to control us. And like with almost all privelages, they can be misused. And that is what has happened. People are misusing their free will, and doing warped and evil things. Because God does not want to take our free will away (that would show that he just controls people to do what is right), he allows and will allow suffering for a certain time. When the Second Coming occurs, all of that will be brought to an end. Those who respected their free will and followed God....are the ones who will be saved. Those who did not....will not be. Righteous people live by faith. Even though the righteous suffer, they all go through trials and some doubts, but it is a test of faith. Those who endure are saved in the end.

If God just showed himself to everybody in the world, and made decrees of exactly what he wants us to do, there would be no need for faith. Everybody would believe in God. That is why when we keep our faith in God, and live for Him everyday, we are showing our true devotion to Him, even though we may not see him or have proof of him. I know that seems as a "convenience" for Christians to explain the existence of God, but it makes good sense.

This is not an attempt by me to force feed you my religion and beliefs. I am backing up what I believe in response to some comments here. Maybe it seems strange to be a "skeptic" and a believer in God. Not really. I just have a belief in a God, a creator, a deity. But there are certain set laws in nature, and restrictions of this planet. So I do not believe in psychics (although some possibly devil-inspired people being fed some information), and I do not believe ESP, etc.

Anyway, there are many things I want to say, but unless those things happen to come up, I will refrain for now.

Lyndale,

I see that now you are basically writing out sermons now. I agree with a lot of what you have to say actually. But I don't know whether you are trying to be accusational, informative, or trying to save people. You keep typing out things that show the difference between a half-baked Christian and a real Christian. What is your intention? To help the Atheists here to believe in God and become a good Christian, or to make everyone believe and follow the same way you do? I just want to understand your intentions. You don't need to be on the defensive with me, because I'm not trying to attack you are flame you with anything.


Dane

"...writing out sermons.." ?

"...intentions". ?


"...I'''m not trying to attack you..". ?


My intentions when I came here was... to show you what I discovered....and to start a (lets say)...legal thread.

My intentions have not changed.

I am a Child of God. I fail many times in being the man, that I should for Him, but still no less, is child.

I'd glady give up all chances of any hopes of collecting anything.....if even one of you put your life in God's hands.



Lyndale

 

[LightPiercingDarkness]

That's what I said - jesus this guy is an idiot.

Again, where is the evidence that god loves me?

gOD ISN'T

I can't help you don't like the "answer".

It is the only one, the only path.


The choice is now yours.


Lyndale

 

[Powa]

The devil is always there trying to switch the pudding. (snip)

I also know if I stood in front of a table with "many" different puddings..........I'd chose one and not stand there just looking.

But what if you picked the wrong pudding? Would you know?

Doing nothing will get you nothing.

And picking the wrong pudding will get you what?

 

[Powa]

Btw, Powa, I think that should explain the reason for terminally ill children and other pain that you were referring to.

If I understand correctly, you're saying that Satan is the one who's making children terminally ill and God doesn't stop him because we all need free will, right. But why didn't God just destroy Satan and give us free will. Does he really need Satan? Ok, now you're going to say that he needs him to tempt us so we can resist him and prove that we're worthy of his love.
But why would God test us at all? Or better yet, what's the purpose of all that he created (us included). Is this all a game for God's amusement?

 

[LightPiercingDarkness]

How, then, do you explain terminally ill children? Is it God's will that they suffer and die or is it their own free will to die?

BTW Dane, I may disagree with what you say but at least you seem to be able to discuss your beliefs (unlike some people on this forum [cough]Lyndale[/cough])

Note: I am not always available for immediat reply. Sometimes, it may take a day or two for me to get back to the net.


Terminally ill children.
"Is it God's will they suffer?.............no.
"...and die..."...................................no.
"...is their own free will to die?". ....no.


Thus, well...why does bad happen?

Because God didn't create a "robotic" creation.
He created a creation with many possilbe varibles.

Well, why don't He just do something? Look who He is.
(my opinion), I believe it would lessen, the purpose, if He did so.

Can't He do anything to fix it?
He did, He gave the GREATEST GIFT HE HAD, JESUS.

Lyndale

 

[LightPiercingDarkness]

But what if you picked the wrong pudding? Would you know?
And picking the wrong pudding will get you what?

"But what if you picked the wrong pudding? Would you know?"

You'd know because the end results would not match the forementiond (the path would fail).

"And picking the wrong pudding will get you what?"

Heart burn.


Lyndale