Miracle of the Shroud IV - The Phantom Image

[pgwenthold]

So here's where I disagree with some of the sentiment here: scientists absolutely love publicity if they can get it. And for sure it would be a huge honor to be the lab chosen to date the shroud. I can see that.

But where Jabba is wrong is in the assertion that, somehow, this makes the results questionable. See, for some reason, he thinks that the people doing the experiments are biased toward a medieval date. That's not a given at all. The labs would be just as famous if they had found a 0 ADish date for the shroud as they would in finding a medieval date. So in order to make this stick, he has to assert not only that they were biased, but that they were biased against the shroud.

Make no mistake, he has made this accusation in an earlier version of this thread, and been called on it. It's baseless, and, moreover, it is insulting. But it has to be so in order for him to question the 14C dating (although it's never been made clear how that works). It's the same "argument" that he uses for the invisible crap patch. If there is not an invisible patch, the 14C dating disproves the shroud as the burial cloth for Jesus. Since it is, there must be an invisible patch, and anyone who suggests otherwise must be biased.

When you assume your conclusion, then it's easy to show black is white and white is black.

 

[Aepervius]

Mmmh I need a better paint program and better skills before trying to make a new shroud avatar "Juvenis Felidae". Any easy program out there beside photoshop ?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Any easy program out there beside photoshop ?

GIMP is the best free alternative to Photoshop.

 

[John Jones]

So here's where I disagree with some of the sentiment here: scientists absolutely love publicity if they can get it. And for sure it would be a huge honor to be the lab chosen to date the shroud. I can see that.

[...]

I'm not so sure about that. Carl Sagan was said to have been denied tenure at Harvard for publicly promoting science advocacy - which some saw as self- promotion.

By way of anecdote - I've been on television, and was uncomfortable. I begged-off a chance to work with the CBS show 60 Minutes.

While we enjoy the recognition of our peers, some of our clients would have taken their business elsewhere if we maintained too high a media profile. This was especially true when I was working on Superfund Cleanup projects.

 

[aleCcowaN]

That goes to say that scientist have lives way more interesting than any character ever portrayed in a "holly" book.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Mmmh I need a better paint program and better skills before trying to make a new shroud avatar "Juvenis Felidae". Any easy program out there beside photoshop ?

You chose the wrong approach. This only works when you stain a million pieces of cloths at random and then you select the one with the convenient image.

I recommend starting with tablecloths and red wine. They are good to get pretty virgencitas.

 

[John Jones]

That goes to say that scientist have lives way more interesting than any character ever portrayed in a "holly" book.

We get all the hot babes too.

 

[aleCcowaN]

We get all the hot babes too.

Yes, when you come in the babes start screaming and dropping test tubes, Petri dishes and volumetric flasks

 

[Slowvehicle]

GIMP is the best free alternative to Photoshop.

And GIMPhoto (also free) is designed to feel and work very much like Photoshop:

http://www.gimphoto.com/2007/08/downloads.html

 

[Slowvehicle]

Yes, when you come in the babes start screaming and dropping test tubes, Petri dishes and volumetric flasks

Giving me a chance to show off mad first-aid and housecleaning skillz....

 

[Rincewind]

What could it mean?

It's time to transfer this thread to Conspiracy?

 

[DickK]

Mmmh I need a better paint program and better skills before trying to make a new shroud avatar "Juvenis Felidae". Any easy program out there beside photoshop ?

Ah, Shroudinger's Cat, finally explaining the simultaneous presence and absence of Ferrous Oxide.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Ah, Shroudinger's Cat, finally explaining the simultaneous presence and absence of Ferrous Oxide.

This wins one internetz. Watch your inbox...

 

[John Jones]

Ah, Shroudinger's Cat, finally explaining the simultaneous presence and absence of Ferrous Oxide.

Excellent. You win the thread.

 

[John Jones]

He's back. Everybody look busy.


ETA: He's searching the fora, so expect another Fringe Reset today.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Ah, Shroudinger's Cat, finally explaining the simultaneous presence and absence of Ferrous Oxide.

Well said!

He's back. Everybody look busy.


ETA: He's searching the fora, so expect another Fringe Reset today.

That state of Colorado is strange. Both the sun and its vampires go out at the same time (the 14C test went sour because of garlic I reckon)

 

[abaddon]

Ah, Shroudinger's Cat, finally explaining the simultaneous presence and absence of Ferrous Oxide.

That was frakkin' good.

 

[Jabba]

Carbon Dating Doubts/Emotionality

Of course scientists are objective, in their field. Otherwise they couldn't be scientists...

Hans,
- In our case, both sides claim that the other side is seriously biased...
- For starters, just go to Judgement Day for the Shroud of Turin and Relic, Icon or Hoax. They are both full of animosity and intrigue.

 

[Craig4]

That book does not relate to the carbon dating, the current topic of discussion.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Hans,
- In our case, both sides claim that the other side is seriously biased...
- For starters, just go to Judgement Day for the Shroud of Turin and Relic, Icon or Hoax. They are both full of animosity and intrigue.

...and yet, one "side" uses a well-honed approach specifically designed to deal with, and minimize the effects of, such bias in pursuit of evidence-based conclusions; while the other has demonstrated the willingness to make all manner of false and unsupported claims in pursuit of pre-adopted conclusion-filtered bits of cherry-picked (even mutually exclusive) "evidence".

You have yet to demonstrate how your accusations of dishonesty and incompetence would have affected three different machines in three independent protocols; causing them to come up with the same "wrong" answer.

Do you have anything that is not calumny?

Will you rudely ignore this post, also?