Merged Migraine Test, VFF, and LightinDarkness

[VisionFromFeeling]

Anita continues to show that she has no idea what research actually means, just like she does not know what skeptic actually means. Time for you to be educated, again:

A migraine test is a horrible test for your proclaimed supernatural powers. The literature shows that those who suffer from migraines often do not have them in any pattern what so ever, and they can have them for days on end and then have the condition disappear for month. You cannot reliably test the effect of your woo on migraines, therefore, because you have no way to reliably measure the effect of the independent variable you have introduced (your woo) to the dependent variable that we are observing (presence of migraines).

I agree that the migraine healing claim would be a difficult one to test and to verify, although easy to falsify. I have already described the dramatic improvement claimed by the man I attempted to treat. If such an improvement would consistently coincide with each of the persons I attempt to treat for migraines, then that would indicate that perhaps there is something to this. My dream would be to have plenty of volunteers such that some of them would be randomly chosen to receive a blank treatment and so we could perhaps see a pattern developing between those that received a "sugar pill" and those that received an honest attempt of a treatment.

Of course if I were to go about having an actual migraine test that involves several volunteers I would actually not attempt to design or conduct the test on my own because there are others who are far more professional in those things.

Further, although I recognize you are simply practicing delusions I cannot materially impact the independent variable. Although it is better to have a blind test, you are the one who originally harassed me to practice your woo. Get the facts straight.

Delusions? I accept that you may certainly suspect my visualization technique to be entirely subjective and imaginary and without real-world effect, but don't forget there is also a massage involved and an actual massage is not a delusion. It might be designed based on a delusion, who knows. But I am not delusional about the dramatic improvement the man claims to have had. If all it were is a delusion in the man's mind, then at least his delusion leads to significant relief in his migraine condition. If I were able to induce a delusion in migraine sufferers such that they do not experience their migraines, I think a lot of migraine sufferers would be interested in having such delusions.

Anita continues to demonstrate she does not know what research is and has never been a researcher. Your woo claims all relate to a source hypothesis, and real researchers when they find such hypothesis are able to test for one and disprove related chain hypothesis. Of course you don't know this because you are incapable of research.

I certainly hope you are not a staff or faculty at the Chemistry department of Duke university. Very often there are classes of similar chemical compounds where one minor difference in structure or minor change in experimental procedure leads to significantly different results in terms of reactivity and properties. In Chemistry, at least, one may not always assume that the results of one experiment applies to all other nearly similar experiments. A lot of discoveries would have gone undiscovered that way.

The reason you declined is because you know it would fail, which is why you will never agree to a real test or any test that requires you to drop the woo.

The reason I wanted to have the migraine test is to falsify the claim. I would wholeheartedly agree to a migraine test with you or with any other skeptic as the volunteer. You know fully well that the only reason you declined to volunteer for the migraine test is because I would not let a falsified migraine claim discourage me from having the official IIG test. Why don't you ask for $10,000 if I fail the test and then accuse me of avoiding the test?

I've worked for over two years now to arrange the IIG test on the medical perceptions claim. That test will be able to falsify that claim, and I don't want to just drop the claim - like you ask me to. What sets a better example for other woos? That I falsified a claim because I designed a test, accepted the test protocols, carried out a fair test, failed the test and agreed that the claim is scientifically falsified, or that I say that I falsified the claim because "a Skeptic told me so."

No amount of you telling lies is going to change the facts, Anita. Stop pulling the martyr card - YOU have shown yourself for who you REALLY are. And it is a ugly picture. Perhaps you should stop showing your true character if you do not wish to be judged by your despicable actions?

Despicable actions? Because I have had unusual experiences that I can't deny or explain of accurate medical perceptions and the man I attempted to treat claiming incredible improvement and because I am then interested in testing those claims according to the skeptical and scientific method? I think you are the one being despicable for trying to discourage me from having the IIG test. Not to mention for wanting us to make our correspondence public and then turning around and saying how mean I was for posting that information.

I would be positively horrified if someone who has absolutely no grasp of the scientific method or research thought I was a good researcher. It would insult me. Thankfully, your opinion shows what I am indeed quite good at research. Your opinion will matter when we see your list of publications and your graduate degree programs.

I don't want to tell you about my publications or research work because I do not want to involve my professional life or career here.

 

[bookitty]

Although I doubt it, the IGG test may very well happen - but if it does, be ready for a volley of excuses. If Anita actually goes through with the test and (when it falsifies her ability) she comes to JREF and admits that the test shows she does not have paranormal powers, I'll donate $500 to Anita's charity of choice. When she fails to do so, I'll donate it to the humane society (the charity I give to currently).

She is already setting up those excuses. Her new story is that she expects to fail and does not believe she has any paranormal ability. She is hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

But it might be moot since she also claiming now that her ability is nothing more than cold reading. In her own words from UncleYimmy's site, http://www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com:

I'm not trying to fool anyone. All I am saying is that I believe I have experienced interesting correlating medical perceptions that I can't deny or find an explanation for. And the only consequence of that is that I will have a paranormal test with the IIG. I absolutely do not believe I have a paranormal ability, I just think I've had interesting accurate perceptions of health. My main hypothesis is that I am unintentionally and subconsciously picking up subtle external clues about a person's health when I look at them and that it translates into corresponding images of health. I don't know. The first thing to do is to establish whether there is a significant accuracy or not that is beyond what a person should be able to acchieve.

You have to wonder why a paranormal claimant who is well versed in the language of the JREF would confess to cold reading. Perhaps she is trying to get the IIG test canceled?

 

[SezMe]

I am in the process of getting independent verification of this claim. As soon as I have more info, I'll post it here.

For now, I cannot follow up on this promise.

Remember, for now ......

 

[Cuddles]

My main hypothesis is that I am unintentionally and subconsciously picking up subtle external clues about a person's health when I look at them and that it translates into corresponding images of health.

You have to wonder why a paranormal claimant who is well versed in the language of the JREF would confess to cold reading. Perhaps she is trying to get the IIG test canceled?

You also have to wonder why someone who claims to be able to see inside bodies at a molecular level, including the ability to zoom in and out, rotate in 3D and so on, would consider cold reading a possible explanation.

More to the point of this thread, you also have to wonder how someone who claims healing abilities could think cold reading and synaesthesia sound in any way plausible as explanations. They could be potential explanations for perceptions (although I should note not for VFF's claimed perceptions), but they certainly aren't anything worth mentioning when it comes to real effects on other people.

 

[desertgal]

The ironic thing is that I have not lied about anything.

No? You claimed to have an affidavit from your migraine 'patient', supporting your anecdote-where is it?

I have already described the dramatic improvement claimed by the man I attempted to treat.

Yes, you have, ad nauseum. But, you seem to take it for granted that we believe this man exists and/or that he actually claims this improvement. For all we know, he and his dramatic improvement may well be a figment of your imagination. Expert 'researcher' that you pretend to be, you still, after all this time 'investigating', still fail to do it properly. You have no affidavits or signed statements-nothing to support what you say. The reality is that YOU only say some man claims this, and YOU have no credibility. So, you can stop reiterating his claim of dramatic improvement as if we accept it as evidence. YOU do, WE don't.

It is the same with your "missing kidney" anecdote. You continue to state that there is a correlation between your perception and reality. But, where is the supporting data from the subject? You repeatedly refuse to produce your own raw data from that particular episode, so there is no verification that Dr. Carlson is, in fact, missing a kidney. I don't doubt his word if he were to confirm it, but he has not done so. For all we know, he set you up to prove that you 'postdict' your perceptions.

 

[bookitty]

Wait, what? There is no hard evidence that Dr. Carlson is missing a kidney? The mind boggles.

I may have mentioned this before but it is beyond irresponsible for VFF to test her migraine cure on humans. By her own words she is using "vibrating energy" on the optic nerves of the brain. If there is anything to her claim, this could be very dangerous.

There is nothing to suggest that this treatment works. There is no real medical treatment that has been put into practice after one test. Especially an inconclusive test in which the researcher themselves says "the attempted healing is nothing but useless and ridiculous."

In addition, this "healing" technique has never been tested under safe lab conditions. VFF has made NO effort to design a safe protocol. She avoids all questions about any potential harm. Only saying that if something were to go wrong, it would be a coincidence.

It doesn't matter that the "att. treatment" is not effective. That has not been proved. If the treatment is ineffective, there is no reason for her to try it. If it is effective, there is the potential for harm.

The fact that she is reaching out to less critical migraine sufferers is appalling. Does she tell them that she has never tested this for safety? No, she only tells them that she doesn't think it will work but that she will be happy to try and then she discusses how her woo works. (When she bothers to tell them that she is att. a treatment)

If any doctor had discovered a new compound that seemed inert, that one single patient claimed was effective (although there was no testing to prove it) and then started using this compound on many patients, he would be jailed.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Although I doubt it, the IGG test may very well happen - but if it does, be ready for a volley of excuses. If Anita actually goes through with the test and (when it falsifies her ability) she comes to JREF and admits that the test shows she does not have paranormal powers, I'll donate $500 to Anita's charity of choice. When she fails to do so, I'll donate it to the humane society (the charity I give to currently).

I will have that $500 donated to the Independent Investigations Group IIG West of Hollywood. They are kind enough to go through the work and effort to put together a test for me, and I am sure their organization has expenses or that they could think of something to do with that money that would further their work in skepticism and in the community. Thank you.

And if I pass the IIG tests and win the $50,000 I will of course also be donating part of it back to the IIG (and some to the JREF). This is nice. Either way IIG can look forward to some money!

 

[pakeha]

Well, well, well.
So there's not as yet any proof the famous dr Carlson is actually missing a kidney.
That's good. Even so, not as good as that VFF has no explanation or comment about her comments/perceptions about blacks' 'different' internal chemistry.

Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling
"I confirm that black people are harder [to read with her "ability"]. They have fewer health problems and their tissues & internal chemicals chemistry etc.is different. I perceive that the bodies of black people would react very differently to having an open flesh-wound than would white people. That they have a much stronger system that produces the sticky yellow liquid that washes, seals, dries, and protects a wound. I perceive that black people have much fewer different types of chemicals in the body than do white people. Enzymes, perhaps. The variety of chemicals in white people's blood and tissues is much more diverse. According to my perception. I hate to say it but I perceive that black people in general would have a shorter lifespan. I hate to say it but I perceive a much larger variety of health problems and also of genetic problems and structural abnormalities in white people than I do in black people. Thus black people being healthier with this regard. I perceive that black people would be more prone to ankle arthritis or ankle problems, whereas white people would be more prone to wrist arthritis or wrist problems.

Are there any studies which back up this wrist/ankle arthritis perception?

 

[desertgal]

Are there any studies which back up this wrist/ankle arthritis perception?

No.

 

[volatile]

She can tell black and white people apart? OK, so we're back to a really simple ABX test, with burqas. Some black guys, some white guys - VFF has to say which is which when they are covered by a full-body burqa.

Any objections to this really simple test?

 

[Femke]

She can tell black and white people apart? OK, so we're back to a really simple ABX test, with burqas. Some black guys, some white guys - VFF has to say which is which when they are covered by a full-body burqa.

Any objections to this really simple test?

Of course. This is doable, volunteers are relatively easy to find, and the result would be self-evident. No way this will be acceptable.

Oh, I feel vibes, some phrases coming up. 'Not my main claim' and 'remote viewing', does that mean anything to anyone?

 

[pakeha]

An excellent idea.
What does VFF think of it?

 

[fromdownunder]

She can tell black and white people apart? OK, so we're back to a really simple ABX test, with burqas. Some black guys, some white guys - VFF has to say which is which when they are covered by a full-body burqa.

Any objections to this really simple test?

Well, actually I do. I once knew a brother and sister, who had mixed parentage, Aboriginal and European. The man was as black as the Ace of Spades, and the woman was a blonde Nordic type - you would never guess that they were brother and sister, or that he had a white parent, or
she had a black one.

What does "black" and "white" really mean? What % of ancestral blood constitutes a hit/miss. And after a few generations, unless you have a full collection of blood tests from every direct ancestor, how can you really ever know?

Norm

 

[volatile]

Oh, I feel vibes, some phrases coming up. 'Not my main claim' and 'remote viewing', does that mean anything to anyone?

This is entirely within the limits she has claimed, and accommodates event the objection to the screen, namely that such a screen would stop her "orienting" her powers.

She has said repeatedly that her powers work through clothing as long as she can orient the body - so let's cover people head-to-toe in a burqa, ninja-suit, hazmat suit or similar such that race is impossible to discern by normal means. She then uses her powers to do exactly what she claims she can do, which is tell black and white people apart by looking at their internal organs.

I can see no reason this does not accommodate any limitation she has thus far claimed.

 

[volatile]

Well, actually I do. I once knew a brother and sister, who had mixed parentage, Aboriginal and European. The man was as black as the Ace of Spades, and the woman was a blonde Nordic type - you would never guess that they were brother and sister, or that he had a white parent, or
she had a black one.

What does "black" and "white" really mean? What % of ancestral blood constitutes a hit/miss. And after a few generations, unless you have a full collection of blood tests from every direct ancestor, how can you really ever know?

Norm

Well, let's ask Anita, given that she has stated she can tell black and white people apart from their internal physiology. You're right that "black" and "white" are strange and arbitrary social categories, but Anita clearly doesn't think that. I don't know where she draws the line, but she clearly has one! The MDC is all about testing the things people say they can do, and she says she can black and white people apart.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Skeptics with migraines in Los Angeles area

I will be arriving in Los Angeles, California, on November 20th 2009 for my IIG Preliminary demonstration. I am interested in finding a Skeptic in that area who suffers from migraines and who would be willing to volunteer to receive an attempted migraine treatment from me and participate by sharing their evaluation of any changes in their migraine condition.

It needs to be a Skeptic so that your experience of any changes to your migraine condition are less likely to be influenced by your expectations, and so that your description of your migraine condition before and after receiving the attempted treatment is more credible as well as more valuable.

The background to why I am investigating this can be found at www.visionfromfeeling.com/migraines.html and a description of how the attempted treatment takes place is also available there. This claim is not made by me. This claim is made by a man who received an attempted migraine treatment from me. He claims dramatic improvement that coincided with the time of receiving the attempted treatment.

The reason I am interested in attempting this again is to falsify the claim if there is no ability. I am interested in documenting falsified paranormal claims as that will set valuable examples into the woo community and make a contribution to skepticism, especially since it comes from an investigator who was personally involved in the claim. However if there is an ability to be discovered that can offer relief to migraine sufferers, I would have every incentive to establish that ability and would then acquire a proper license and make that treatment available to migraine sufferers, for their sake not mine.

If you experience no improvement that coincides with the time of receiving the attempted treatment, this claim is likely to be falsified. And if you do experience coinciding significant improvement, the only consequence is that this claim will warrant further investigation.

I will be available in Los Angeles from November 20th and until November 22nd, and an attempted treatment should take about 30 minutes. And so maybe I can falsify two paranormal claims in one weekend.

 

[GeeMack]

As posted in the thread, The VFF Test is On! ...

I will be arriving in Los Angeles for my IIG Preliminary demonstration on November 20th 2009. If there is a Skeptic in that area who suffers from migraines I would be very interested in meeting with you to give you an attempted migraine treatment.

The reason I am investigating this is based on a past experience I had where I gave an attempted migraine treatment to someone and he claims dramatic improvement that coincided with the time of receiving the att. treatment. This experience as well as a description of what is involved in an att. treatment is available at www.visionfromfeeling.com/migraines.html.

This claim is not made by me. This claim is made by the man who received an attempted treatment from me. That is why I am interested in trying again but this time with a Skeptic. As a Skeptic, your experience of any changes to your migraine condition would be less likely to be influenced by your expectations, and your accounts would be more reliable as well as more valuable.

Preferably you would already have documentation of the frequency and severity of your migraines at least a few months back before receiving the att. treatment and you would continue to document your migraines at least a few months after receiving the att. treatment.

If the att. treatment does not coincide with improvement in your migraine condition this claim is very likely to be falsified. And if the att. treatment does coincide with significant improvement in your migraine condition, it does not verify the claim but only warrants further investigation into the claim.

This way, perhaps I could falsify two claims in one weekend!

Of course that would be attempting to perform a medical treatment without a license, a felony in California. Fact is, even your solicitation for it here is a violation of the law. Interstate commerce laws might add another layer of complication to the matter. A conviction would likely involve prison time.

This legislation applies anyone who is not otherwise licensed as a health care provider under California law and "who practices or attempts to practice, or who advertises or holds himself or herself out as practicing, any system or mode of treating the sick or afflicted in this state, or who diagnoses, treats, operates for, or prescribes for any ailment, blemish, deformity, disease, disfigurement, disorder, injury, or other physical or mental condition of any person..." [California's Business and Professions Code Section 2052].​

Have you considered how that will look on your record when you get out of prison and get back to pursuing your career in the medical field?

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Thank you GeeMack for warning me. I am of course not interested in practicing treatment, and only interested in investigating it. However, legally they may be difficult to distinguish, so I'd better stay away from that. I will find out what exactly is allowed first before doing anything further. Thank you.

 

[Akhenaten]

The reason I am investigating this migraine treatment claim is mainly because if there is an ability that could offer relief to migraine sufferers I would have every incentive to establish that ability and then to obtain a license and make this treatment available to migraine sufferers, for their benefit not mine. Another reason I investigate is also scientific curiosity.

Source


I thought scientific curiosity was the ONLY reason for any of this. It's the main reason for everyone elses' involvement.

 

[Farencue]

Anita Ikonen discovers amazing new ability!

Wow, I see Anita Ikonen aka VisionfromFeeling has decided to study her new ability - curing migraines.
I also see Anita Ikonen is asking for assistance from JREF skeptics in designing the study.

I suffered from migraines many years ago on a regular basis, sometimes I would need a shot of pethidine at the local hospital.
Then, they suddenly disappeared - I have not had a migraine for over 10 years.
My doctor reckoned it was a hormone scramble that occurred, relieving me of the migraines.

I am very interested in what suggestions the scientific community here at JREF can come up with for Anita's new study. If she can cure migraines with her alleged "massage" technique I am sure she will win the Nobel Prize.

Migraines are no joke.