Merged Migraine Test, VFF, and LightinDarkness

[VisionFromFeeling]

A very vague definition of 'Paranomal Investigation', loads of wiggle room. But seems to be essentionally;

• Normal sciencetific inquiry has never detected esp.
• I am definitely not wrong about my esp.
• Therefore a sciencetific inquiry is ill-equipped to test me.

Why didn't you say from the start (your very first thread!) you weren't looking to be scientifically verified?

The claims will be tested scientifically. Either falsified or verified.

As I said in the other thread at stopVFF, your a time waster with a severe history of dodging help. Don't be suprised if you've worn out your reliability, your are unlikely to get lines of new volunteers here to test your "mental hug" on.

Get back to us with the verifiable data, until then I think were done.

I am being told to test things that are not my claim, and to agree to test conditions that I have never experienced the claim under (such as the endless insisting that I do a remote viewing test). I welcome advise that respects what the claim and its limitations are.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Lifelong migraineur here, and I would be hard pressed to let an obviously abusive and complete incommunicado anywhere near my poor head after seeing how LiD has fared in your supposedly "friendly" hands. I'd rather be "hugged" by a kodiak bear.

Don't forget what actually happened to the man I attempted to treat for migraines.

*The migraines had gradually been getting worse over time for the past several years without temporary easier periods.
*A minimum of 12 migraines a month before treatment. After treatment only 2 for each of the two months that followed.
*Migraines lasting shorter amounts of time and less severe when they do occur, after the treatment.
*No changes in medication or other lifestyle changes were made at the time of the treatment to suggest other possible causes of the improvement. Not to say that other causes were not possible.

What exactly is so bad about all of this? You guys are just pessimistic, seeing things to complain about when there are none.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I've suffered from migraines for years and I have no idea how one would measure the supposed effectiveness of VfF's "treatment". My doc had me keep a diary of them; how long they lasted, visual or "normal" (I get both kinds), etc. The thing is, it would be completely subjective as to whether I got "better" after the treatment. Any variation in frequency could just be due to random chance. I've gone weeks without one, and I've had them on consecutive days (I don't normally get more than one a day, thank FSM).

So, like I said, completely subjective. This is a blind alley, folks. Back to checking for kidneys.

The changes to his migraine condition right after the attempted treatment were dramatic. Question is what caused it. That is why I want to try again with another person to see if the attempted treatment will consistently coincide with unexpected and noticeable improvement. I need to find out, because if I can help these people I would feel obliged to. They are already trying everything conventional and alternative medicine can offer.

 

[desertgal]

Don't forget what actually happened to the man I attempted to treat for migraines.

*The migraines had gradually been getting worse over time for the past several years without temporary easier periods.
*A minimum of 12 migraines a month before treatment. After treatment only 2 for each of the two months that followed.
*Migraines lasting shorter amounts of time and less severe when they do occur, after the treatment.
*No changes in medication or other lifestyle changes were made at the time of the treatment to suggest other possible causes of the improvement.

"Actually happened"? We don't know that actually happened. Anecdotal evidence is not proof. That has only been explained to you about 4,000 times.

What exactly is so bad about all of this? You guys are just pessimistic, seeing things to complain about when there are none.

And you are a liar and a fraud.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Why should I say that when it is blatantly obvious to everyone in the world that it is you who is delaying and avoiding having a test?

I am absolutely not delaying. The IIG and me are discussing the protocol. And as for a migraine test all I need are volunteers.

Also if a subject for whatever reason experiences an easing in their pain, they may mistakenly attribute it to your ridiculous claims.

Absolutely not. You have no idea how exhaustively I was searching for another explanation to why his migraine condition got better and I still don't conclude that I had anything to do with it. Which is why I need to try again with other people. I'd even want to have a test where some will receive an authentic attempt of treatment and others will receive a blank treatment and nobody is told which they receive. But that requires several volunteers. Ashles why don't you suggest how I can find volunteers for a migraine healing test?

This will create a false hope for them, may create some form of reliance on you (a completely false one similar to the way psychics create a false reliance) and bolster your own delusion.
That's the slippery slope. Soon you are charging money and are a fully fledged scam artist.

No because I say that the treatment should be expected to be uneffective. Also if I involve a test where they know that some of them won't receive an authentic treatment, they can not have the same expectations as if I promised to them that it would be effective. I tell them to rely on conventional medicine. And I have no delusion regarding what he said was his improvement in the migraines, and of course I know that he could have been lying. And I'm headed toward a career in conventional medicine, but you already knew that.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

As Steven said, pressure on my head wouldn't necessarily be bad. I use heavy cold cloths across my eyes. But (for me) dealing with the pain of a migraine is like balancing on a tightrope over an abyss. Every movement, every glance, every sound is dangerous. Even moving my eyes can make things worse.

Sitting upright in a chair while someone rubbed my head and talked would be a nightmare.

I would not give the treatment during a migraine, so that would be fine. Would you volunteer to let me treat your migraines? If it fails to coincide with any obvious improvement in your migraine condition, the claim is falsified.

 

[jhunter1163]

The changes to his migraine condition right after the attempted treatment were dramatic. Question is what caused it. That is why I want to try again with another person to see if the attempted treatment will consistently coincide with unexpected and noticeable improvement. I need to find out, because if I can help these people I would feel obliged to. They are already trying everything conventional and alternative medicine can offer.

:steakslap:

It could have been anything, placebo effect, coincidence, who knows? Again, any "improvement" is going to be purely subjective. There's simply no way to construct anything approaching an experiment on this.

 

[fromdownunder]

I would not give the treatment during a migraine, so that would be fine. Would you volunteer to let me treat your migraines? If it fails to coincide with any obvious improvement in your migraine condition, the claim is falsified.

So, what is your protocol to determine exactly how effective your treatment would be? It's not like migraines occur once a week like clockwork. If you are testing while somebody is NOT having a migraine, then you are not testing anything.

How many months of records would you want? How many times would you need to "treat" somebody? How reliant on any previous records would you be so that you can graph the progress? You would need somebody with a complete history of how many, how often and how bad, and then a record of "post treatment" migraines.

Do you really think that any normal person will submit to this sort of thing?

Giving somebody one "treatment" and then deciding if it works or not is nothing more than a joke.

Norm

 

[bookitty]

I would not give the treatment during a migraine, so that would be fine. Would you volunteer to let me treat your migraines? If it fails to coincide with any obvious improvement in your migraine condition, the claim is falsified.

What if they got worse?

You have already been given several very concise reasons why such a test is not scientifically accurate, would prove nothing at all and is a waste of time.

You are asking for guinea pigs for a scientifically unproven & unethical medical experiment. Everyone knows you get the Fortress Of Evil first, then you can start with the whole "They laughed when I said I could see kidneys! Bwahahahaha!" shtick.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Because LightinDarkness wanted our discussion about a possible attempted migraine treatment to be taken into the "public forum". If I do something, it is wrong. And if I don't do it, it is wrong. So I'll just do one or the other and everyone will be upset either way.

How dare you lie again? We've been over this before. At no time did I ever give you permission to post any PRIVATE MESSAGE I SENT YOU. Never. I suggested that we stop conversing in private and you post in the thread instead of talking to me, that does not equal posting my private messages here or somewhere else. I have repeatedly requested that you remove all references to me from your website, and you have declined to do so. You are a liar, a fraud, and completely without class. This, by the way, is exactly why no sane person would ever agree to your tests. You can't even handle simple requests to remove CLEARLY private messages from your website because you love attention whoring too much to do so.

My inquiry into the migraine treatment is an open investigation. Even LightinDarkness used to think so.

Liar. This is not a open inquiry - you cannot heal people of migraines and harassing people with migraines over PM and then posting them on your website without my permission and refusing to take them down shows that you are doing nothing but attention whoring.

 

[Sun Countess]

Would you volunteer to let me treat your migraines?

Treat? I'm still having trouble distinguishing a "study" from a "test," and now you're offering actual treatments. Like a medical practitioner, except without a license.

 

[LightinDarkness]

[qimg]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2433/vffattentionwhore2.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://yfrog.com/16vffattentionwhore2j[/qimg]

This is great. I think this should be posted on the front page of stop VFF and we can upgrade/downgrade levels weekly or so!

 

[blue sock monkey]

Why do I have the awful feeling that Desertgal's splendid warning system may need even more colors before the VfF threads here on the JREF Forum wind to a close?

 

[StevenCalder]

I am being told to test things that are not my claim, and to agree to test conditions that I have never experienced the claim under (such as the endless insisting that I do a remote viewing test). I welcome advise that respects what the claim and its limitations are.

Those damn skeptics! Holding you down and preventing you from taking tests with their damn words! It must be so hard for you to get around to doing things.

You've had hundreds of incredibly simple protocols which if your powers worked the way you said in your anecdotal evidence, would work under test conditions. When push comes to shove, you just move on to the next claim, your a time waster.

I would not give the treatment during a migraine, so that would be fine. Would you volunteer to let me treat your migraines? If it fails to coincide with any obvious improvement in your migraine condition, the claim is falsified.

Its been explained before why people don't want to engage with you on this many times, but Ill sumarise again;

• Your history shows you to be untrustworthy.
• People of paranormal persuasion rarely truly falsify claims, but spin the claim into an anecdotal story, and given your history "I will falsify it this time, honest" doesn't really hold water.
• Mirgaines and most chronic pain conditions are subject to random fluctations and therefore very difficult to test, requiring massive datasets and months and months of record keeping to make any kind of conclusion. Essentially your requiring a massive commitment from a skeptic to keep records for every day of their life for an extended peroid of time.
• You don't understand that even if your story were true one coincedence means nothing, and the recovery's most likely cause was something else (incorrect diagnosis etc etc) which you have declined to investigate in favor of your own super powers. You've skipped the likely answers and gone straight for the ones you like.
• If your ability were real, playing with untested un-understood vibrational energys within someones brain with the proviso that you would "feel" if something bad would happen is reckless and down right stupid. Imagine if a surgeon came up to you and said "Look I have no idea what I'm doing, but im sure I'll be able to tell if somethings going to go wrong".
• You don't seem to understand the moral implications of the above.
• No one likes to go meet strangers who claim to be able to strange things and are in all likelyhood slightly unhinged, especially ones who are untrustworthy.
• Your history shows you to be untrustworthy.

And there a many more reasons, which you should be familar with by now

Put it simply, there are many people on these boards as you have seen who really have terrible migraines and hate them. And through the way you have conducted yourself they are unwilling to be "healed" by you. That should say alot about the way you've acted. Essentially I think you've burned you bridges. Or napalmed them.

Get back to us with some data (remeber as fromdownunder says, and as I've told you before: if your doing the migraine test your going to need a very large data set, I'd say atleast 3 months before hand and 3 months after). See you in 6 months time!

 

[Drs_Res]

The claims will be tested scientifically. Either falsified or verified.

I am being told to test things that are not my claim, and to agree to test conditions that I have never experienced the claim under (such as the endless insisting that I do a remote viewing test). I welcome advise that respects what the claim and its limitations are.

No one asked you to do a "remote viewing test", so please stop using that wording.

Thank you.

 

[desertgal]

Why do I have the awful feeling that Desertgal's splendid warning system may need even more colors before the VfF threads here on the JREF Forum wind to a close?

I'm not sure there are that many colors in the world.

 

[Ashles]

I am absolutely not delaying. The IIG and me are discussing the protocol.

Well more likely they are waiting for you to propose a scientifically stringent protocol.
Which as we have said many, many times, will never happen.

And as for a migraine test all I need are volunteers.

No, this is not your main claim or your strongest claim, or an ethical claim.
So no you won't be getting them, and any attempt to 'treat' people with medical conditions (without supervision from a University or at least medically qualified professionals) will result in your being reported to the North Carolina Medical Board.

Absolutely not. You have no idea how exhaustively I was searching for another explanation to why his migraine condition got better

And the simplest one - that they disappear on their own - was still beyond you?
You may want to look up the word 'exhaustively'. It doesn't actually mean the same as 'badly'.

Oh and you still seem to be labouring under the impression that we believe your story as presented. Some of us don't.

and I still don't conclude that I had anything to do with it.

Anyway it doesn't matter as migraine relief is not your main claim, not your 'strongest claim' and you've only done it once and you haven't even concluded it was anything to do with you.

Much better to test your amazing medical imaging which has worked allegedly so many times and, according to you, never been wrong.

Which is why I need to try again with other people. I'd even want to have a test where some will receive an authentic attempt of treatment and others will receive a blank treatment and nobody is told which they receive.

Well I'm afraid Anita doesn't always get what Anita wants.
Especially when you want the health and medical conditions of others to be your playthings.

But that requires several volunteers. Ashles why don't you suggest how I can find volunteers for a migraine healing test?

Because (starts typing very slowly in the hope this time the message will get through) You Should Not Be Doing A Migraine Test.
That's why.
Steven Calder has given you several reasons why it is unsuitable. not least of which is the massive amount of data you would need to generate. Not a half hearted, unscientific 'Oh now I'm bored of that' approach like every other pretense at a test you have performed (or suggested).

And aside from anything else it is unethical for you to carry one out. So you will get absolutely no support from me in setting up such a test.
Believe me, quite the opposite. I will report any attempt by you to treat anyone's migraines.

No because I say that the treatment should be expected to be uneffective. Also if I involve a test where they know that some of them won't receive an authentic treatment, they can not have the same expectations as if I promised to them that it would be effective. I tell them to rely on conventional medicine. And I have no delusion regarding what he said was his improvement in the migraines, and of course I know that he could have been lying. And I'm headed toward a career in conventional medicine, but you already knew that.

I'm afrid I never know which fantasy career you are planning from day to day. I thought it was becoming an expert in optics. Then it was inventing your own branch of science called Vibrational Algebra or something. Then you would be a Nobel prize winning scientist for research into yourself and your own abilities.
Today it's conventional medicine? Jolly good.

Word of warning - getting yourself in trouble with the North Carolina Medical Board before you have even started along such a career path would not be a great beginning.
Silly that you would risk so much just to get attention, when the migraine treatment is not even your 'strongest ability'.

Why can't you just can't step back and wait for the IIG test?
Or what about attempting to test anything that simply wouldn't breach medical ethics (i.e. about 30 other claims you have made).
It doesn't matter if you fail those tests, all new information would be useful and you just want to learn the truth - so you keep telling us.

Do you always have to be generating new untestable claims just for the attention?
That really is a very worrying compulsion Anita and it really is now risking you getting into trouble.

If you are genuinely thinking about a career you need to drop any intention of treating people with migraines. Now.
It doesn't matter if you precede it with disclaimers or not.
This isn't a game - this is the health of other human beings.

If you want to test your claimed abilities start with any of the many non-human tests you could carry out, or restrict yourself to the kidney claim with IIG.

You are dangerously close to crossing a line just to feed your own craving for attention.

 

[Ashles]

There's simply no way to construct anything approaching an experiment on this.

Hence why it is the only test Anita is currently prepared to discuss.

It can't be easily tested, it wouldn't yield any useful data, you can't ethically even perform the test, any result could be spun to be interpreted any way you like... it's perfect for Anita.

If we turned around and said "Sure here's two hundred volunteers, here's a tight scientific protocol, the North Carolina Medical Board phoned - they don't care. Off you go." she'd abandon this thread so quickly it would make our heads spin.

Then a new claim would be generated, one even harder to test.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I'm not doing any of this for attention. In fact I do not like the attention I am being given, it is very negative and hostile. I am here because of the two very interesting paranormal claims that I am investigating. If you don't like to see those claims get attention, do not give them any attention. As for personal attacks, we should try to look at the subject (the claims) and not the person (claimant).

I hope one day you people see how rude and hostile you have been as I have done nothing wrong.

 

[bookitty]

I'm not doing any of this for attention. In fact I do not like the attention I am being given, it is very negative and hostile. I am here because of the two very interesting paranormal claims that I am investigating. If you don't like to see those claims get attention, do not give them any attention. As for personal attacks, we should try to look at the subject (the claims) and not the person (claimant).

I hope one day you people see how rude and hostile you have been as I have done nothing wrong.

This forum is shockingly accepting. Most of the people here are willing to suspend disbelief in order to help claimants find a logical and fair test. They are patient beyond measure. The help they have offered you is no different. You have been given hours and hours of people's time.

You've wasted this kindness on lies, misdirection and back-tracking. Recently you have tried to make the board party to your unethical experiments.

Now you are complaining that people aren't being nice? You were already given far more respect than you could ever earn.