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Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

Yeah, only 'modern people,' developed trademarks and artistic styles, and then marketed them to the world!! ...
Nothing in my post about "trademarks and artistic styles".
Nothing in my post about only one way to depict hands.
There is no way that EI in around AD 1000 could have been inspired by people who did not exist (GT was abandoned 9,000 year earlier :jaw-dropp!).
Neolithic people who did not have ocean-going skills 9-12 thousands years ago could not get to Easter Island.

The Nike example is stupid because it is a modern, commercial logo spread by a modern civilization with modern technologies.

The hand carving comparison is very ignorant because people have hands! So when they depict hands, it is rational to expect most of the depictions to be similar. I know of one exception - Maori carvings commonly have three fingers and a thumb and sometimes less.

When people depict hands picking up things from above (or strangling? a bird) they will point downward.

There is the fantasy of a "globally connected" civilization only able to communicate about hands which is why I asked:
13 November 2017: Where the carvings of foxes, etc. on Easter Island? Where the moai, makemake, birdmen, etc. at Göbekli Tepe?

We can even push that hand fantasy further.
Are the hands in Greek art evidence of a "globally connected" civilization dating back to GT?
Are the hands in medieval paintings evidence of a "globally connected" civilization dating back to the hands in cave paintings 40,000 years ago?

Or we could use form follows function to make equally absurd assertions. e.g. hammer stones look the same because they have the same function. Are hammer stones dating back millions of years in Africa and hammer stones dating to Neolithic times elsewhere evidence of a million year old "globally connected" civilization?

The reasonable answer to all of these questions is no.
 
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Quoting out of context. They hit bedrock - do you think the lost civilization will be found under bedrock?

LOL

"Charcoal and rat bones"...and they believe this was not the earliest site, but that it may be underwater.

This is NOT evidence of the beginning of EI, but that its occupation began again there, with finished stones that were already carved. One statue found at this level is basalt. The basalt quarry is now underwater...
 
"Charcoal and rat bones"...and they believe this was not the earliest site, but that it may be underwater.

This is NOT evidence of the beginning of EI, but that its occupation began again there, with finished stones that were already carved. One statue found at this level is basalt. The basalt quarry is now underwater...

You can't even read can you? lol

Still wrong
 
I think you read what you wanted, and ignored some crucial details...

You are making wild claims without support: 'no linky no believy' Links to reliable sources by the way. I consider all your statements to be untrue unless backed up.

I guess you conceded you were wrong about the lost civilization lying under the bedrock then? lol

Still wrong
 
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"Charcoal and rat bones"...and they believe this was not the earliest site, but that it may be underwater.
Re-dating Ahu Nau Nau and the Settlement at 'Anakena, Rapa Nui
The repeated fantasy that the authors believe there are earlier settlements than at Ahu Nau Nau when it is a question they asked. "The Island Context" part of the paper does point out that Ahu Nau Nau is slightly later than some other newly dated ahu sites.

A "underwater" fantasy because the paper does not say that. The only mention of water is "fresh water supplies". Likewise under, sea and ocean give nothing about earlier sites. The authors suggest looking for settlements with good fresh water supplies, e.g. around the crater lakes.
 
Source for one statue at Ahu Nau Nau being basalt

One statue found at this level is basalt. The basalt quarry is now underwater...
14 November 2017: Source for one statue at Ahu Nau Nau being basalt.
14 November 2017: Source for that basalt statue coming from a basalt quarry that is now underwater.

Moai
All but 53 of the more than 900 moai known to date were carved from tuff (a compressed volcanic ash) from Rano Raraku, where 394 moai in varying states of completion are still visible today. There are also 13 moai carved from basalt, 22 from trachyte and 17 from fragile red scoria.[12] At the end of carving, the builders would rub the statue with pumice.
As far As I can find out, the quarries for those few basalt moai have never been found which has lead to one person (Robert M. Schoch) speculating that they were in areas since flooded by the sea. The problem is that sea levels did not change much over the last 2000 years which definitely covers the moai construction period.
The graph shows how sea level changed over the past 2000 years. There are four phases:
•Stable sea level from 200 BC until 1000 AD
•A 400-year rise by about 6 cm per century up to 1400 AD
•Another stable period from 1400 AD up to the late 19th C
•A rapid rise by about 20 cm since.
About 44 cm rise in the last 2000 years.
 
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You are making wild claims without support: 'no linky no believy' Links to reliable sources by the way. I consider all your statements to be untrue unless backed up.

I guess you conceded you were wrong about the lost civilization lying under the bedrock then? lol

Still wrong

The lost civilization is under water off the coast, within the basalt quarry...
 
The lost civilization is under water off the coast, within the basalt quarry...
Good advice when digging deeper into a pit of fantasy is to stop digging! Now you have
  • a fantasy of a lost civilization inside
  • a fantasy of a basalt quarry inside
  • probably a fantasy of a basalt moai at Ahu Nau Nau inside
  • a fantasy of Easter Island of ~1000 AD being in communication with people who lived at GT 9,000 years before Easter Island was settled.
 
The lost civilization is under water off the coast, within the basalt quarry...
95% of all stone came from Rano Raraku which is inland. The last incomplete moai are in this inland quarry.

Where exactly is this magical underwater quarry and where was the stone utilised, that you falsely claim was taken from this magical quarry?
 

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The lost civilization is under water off the coast, within the basalt quarry...

Still wrong

No link so considered a 'whopper' and so it is - an outrageous misrepresentation of the evidence -and wrong too - well done KOTA!

Funny though
 
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95% of all stone came from Rano Raraku which is inland. The last incomplete moai are in this inland quarry.

Where exactly is this magical underwater quarry and where was the stone utilised, that you falsely claim was taken from this magical quarry?

Howdy Matthew

Yes where is this magical quarry? There were 19 known "interior quarry" sites where at least one statue was taken - below is a discussion of where the others came from. I wonder if one of those in is flooded when it rains? lol

Yes that is the main quarry plus a smaller one where the red scoria came from. A few other moai were from other materials:

To wit:

Rano Raraku, a volcanic crater on the island’s eastern plain, was the source of the sideromelane (basaltic) tuff from which 95% of the statues were carved. This source is irrefutable as there are 397 in situ statues, of which 141 in various stages of completion have recently been mapped by EISP in the interior quarries (Van Tilburg 2005; www.eisp.org). Much rarer statue lithologies are basalt (hawaiite lavas) from three named regions; trachyte and ‘red basaltic scoria’ or ‘red scoriaceous lava’ (also used as pukao or ‘topknots’ that were placed on the heads of about 75-100 statues).

There are only 20 statues (portable and non-portable) now in the EISP database which were carved of basalt. Of these, 7 are in museum collections. The British Museum holds two basalt statues, both of which are of central and very great significance to furthering our understanding of Rapa Nui history. One of them (1869.10-5.1) is re-carved on its dorsal side with bas-relief and incised petroglyphs of great iconographic significance. This re-carving is unique in its style, detail, and expertise and quality of execution. Four other statues, including 1869.10-6.1 (Moai Hava), have incised petroglyphs of lesser distinction but within clearly defined, limited typological categories. Another 30 statues still in situ on the island have applied decorations of similar styles
.

http://www.eisp.org/10/#more-10
 
14 November 2017: Source for one statue at Ahu Nau Nau being basalt.
14 November 2017: Source for that basalt statue coming from a basalt quarry that is now underwater.

Moai

As far As I can find out, the quarries for those few basalt moai have never been found which has lead to one person (Robert M. Schoch) speculating that they were in areas since flooded by the sea. The problem is that sea levels did not change much over the last 2000 years which definitely covers the moai construction period.

About 44 cm rise in the last 2000 years.

Thanks for finding that. I was wondering where the heck our clueless individual was getting this. As usual a fringe guru speaks and so he dutifully laps it up without doing his own research.....very funny.

The actual answer is that a few of Moai were not quarried from 'living rock' but were made from erratic stones left from earlier volcanic explosions, ie free lying boulders - speculation of course.
 
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The KOTA short cut from study, research and the use of logic - The finest peer review is:

uPfrzb7.jpg
 
Re-dating Ahu Nau Nau and the Settlement at 'Anakena, Rapa Nui
The repeated fantasy that the authors believe there are earlier settlements than at Ahu Nau Nau when it is a question they asked. "The Island Context" part of the paper does point out that Ahu Nau Nau is slightly later than some other newly dated ahu sites.

A "underwater" fantasy because the paper does not say that. The only mention of water is "fresh water supplies". Likewise under, sea and ocean give nothing about earlier sites. The authors suggest looking for settlements with good fresh water supplies, e.g. around the crater lakes.

AS KOTA says he won't respond to Reality Check anymore I am quoting this posts to make sure he sees it
 
14 November 2017: Source for one statue at Ahu Nau Nau being basalt.
14 November 2017: Source for that basalt statue coming from a basalt quarry that is now underwater.

Moai

As far As I can find out, the quarries for those few basalt moai have never been found which has lead to one person (Robert M. Schoch) speculating that they were in areas since flooded by the sea. The problem is that sea levels did not change much over the last 2000 years which definitely covers the moai construction period.

About 44 cm rise in the last 2000 years.

As KOTA says he isn't responding to reality Check I am quoting this to make sure he sees it.
 
Third time of asking.
Please post (or repost) the peer-reviewed research you mentioned that supports your claim of an ancient, advanced, global civilisation that was destroyed in a flood.
I promise not to ignore it.

Sorry, I can't help you right now.
Presumably because you were caught out in a lie.
You yourself said that no peer-reviewed research has been posted on this thread.
Porpoise of Life: nice catch! :thumbsup::D

Because none of the material is being peer reviewed so cannot be verified as it issues forth. That is why we have peer reviewed journals for science - and they are what counts, not the ravings of the insane.

Riiiiight...and were there any such sources featured in this discussion...?
 
Basalt Moai- https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/quarry-easter-island/

No basalt quarry has yet been found, which means it (and others like it) came from somewhere else...

Which is more likely they were transported there on raft boats, or they came from local quarries, now submerged?
Speculation. All your article has to say is "Most moai are made of tuff. Tuff is a soft volcanic rock native to Easter Island. (A few moai were carved from basalt and scoria, other volcanic rocks.)"

Nothing about off island rocks. What is your source for this supposition?

ETA Wiki makes it even less mysterious
Most statues on Rapa Nui are of a reddish tuff,but Hoa Hakananai'aWP is made from a block of dark grey-brown flow lava. Though commonly described as basalt, quarried near to where the statue was found, there is no record of petrological analysis to confirm this.​
 
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