Michael Moore newsletter 12/20

Luke T. said:
It has always been a complaint, during war or peace, among military people that they don't have enough equipment. Even during the glory days of the buildup under Reagan, we occasionally found ourselves buying parts at Radio Shack out of our own pockets.
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Hey even people like me who were (at the time) dependants can remember Graham-Rudmann and it's effect on military budgets.

Did you notice how the ubiquitus black government ballpoints grew scarcer and scarcer as September approached?
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


Hey even people like me who were (at the time) dependants can remember Graham-Rudmann and it's effect on military budgets.

Did you notice how the ubiquitus black government ballpoints grew scarcer and scarcer as September approached?
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Only around the office. :D
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


Hey even people like me who were (at the time) dependants can remember Graham-Rudmann and it's effect on military budgets.

Did you notice how the ubiquitus black government ballpoints grew scarcer and scarcer as September approached?
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Do you need one? I got out in 1994 and recently discovered I have like 10 working ones around the house. It wasn't theft. I just kept leaving the one I had in my other set of cammies.
 
I see Mr. Manifesto has crawled back under his rock after tossing the obligatory daily grenade. Why is he always surprised when the target throws it back at him? I mean, it happens all the time. I thought these college kids were supposed to be smart. Ah well, I guess they can't all be winners.

Oh, those crazy kids. Remember when you were that age?
 
Jocko said:
I see Mr. Manifesto has crawled back under his rock after tossing the obligatory daily grenade. Why is he always surprised when the target throws it back at him? I mean, it happens all the time. I thought these college kids were supposed to be smart. Ah well, I guess they can't all be winners.

Oh, those crazy kids. Remember when you were that age?
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I do remember when I was that age. I was throwing real grenades and hanging out with about 185,000 other guys that would say Moore, Manifesto and AUP were actually the mindless drones being led by lies they would like to claim we were.
 
Troll said:


I do remember when I was that age. I was throwing real grenades and hanging out with about 185,000 other guys that would say Moore, Manifesto and AUP were actually the mindless drones being led by lies they would like to claim we were.
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Carefull Troll, If you say too much Rikzilla will pop in here to cross examine you about your claims of military service... Or was it the Borg you served with? You seem to indicate that they all shared the one mind.
 
The Fool said:

Carefull Troll, If you say too much Rikzilla will pop in here to cross examine you about your claims of military service... Or was it the Borg you served with? You seem to indicate that they all shared the one mind.
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Uh, he mentioned his service in support of an opinion, not as the basis of an assertion of fact like Zero did. Therein lies the critical difference.

As to me, let me just tell you that I've served in the elite corps of the Salvation Army. Yeah, you heard me right, nancy-boy. Those sissies in the marines and army rangers have nothing on me.

Yeah, it's left some scars. Deep scars. I can still hear the bells.


Edited to add: For the humor-impaired (like Mr. Manifesto), that's what we call a joke. I figured I'd better cover my bases before you took off and ran with it as you're so prone to do.
 
The Fool said:

Carefull Troll, If you say too much Rikzilla will pop in here to cross examine you about your claims of military service... Or was it the Borg you served with? You seem to indicate that they all shared the one mind.
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Well I'm not one of those little paranoid people. I'd block out the social security number, because I'm not a moron either, but I'd gladly post my DD-214 and whatever anyone else that doubts me feel they may need.

Never said they all shared the same mind. You seem to read what you want in a post, which explains your failings with Skeptic. I said "about 185,000.;)
 
Jocko said:


When you claim it as the basis for an almost clairvoyant ability to judge the mindset of the average soldier, then yes, it is relevant, particularly when it is stacked against so many contrary (and frankly, more credible) assessments.

Why would you feel so threatened by that? I know Mr. M is simply trolling for trouble - so sue me if I make him work for it.
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That's odd, I only claimed that I heard more than one viewpoint when I was in. Some people apparently think that the military is like Rush Limbaugh's dittoheads, and only have one opinion. I even said that the viewpoints Moore was showing were a minority one, so where's your beef?
 
Jocko said:


So surgical pins, not shrapnel as one would be led to believe by your generalized use of "metal." True to form so far.

By the way, there would be no such need for 11 reconstructive pins for a compound fracture unless the leg was shattered. As a "veteran" of multiple knee operations, the pins story is even more outlandish than the idea of shrapnel.

But in any event, you never served during combat operations? Funny, but several who have - look to Rik and Luke for examples - seem to disagree with your assessment of the average soldier's opinions.



Unless this was a poor attempt at a double bluff, which I believe it is. Perhaps you could offer a reference. Is your old scoutmaster available?
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Actually, it was a plate, 6 screws, 2 pins, and two staples.

And, look, since you don't know how to read what I post, stop responding to it. When did I say that the opinions stated were the 'average soldier's'? Nowhere, especially since I was defending those opinions as a valid MINORITY viewpoint.
 
Anyhoo, I'm waiting for INTERESTING questions about my service, or I'd prefer to let the whole thing drop...


You know, the stuff that interests the average Marine, like how much those 30-packs of Coors Extra Gold were on base, or which "dancer" was my favorite at Ft. Sill....($10.99, and Maggie with the 'million dollar a$$')
 
Zero said:
Anyhoo, I'm waiting for INTERESTING questions about my service, or I'd prefer to let the whole thing drop...

You know, the stuff that interests the average Marine, like how much those 30-packs of Coors Extra Gold were on base, or which "dancer" was my favorite at Ft. Sill....($10.99, and Maggie with the 'million dollar a$$')
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That clinches it for me. You knew Jarheads get their artillery training at Ft. Sill. A poseur would have said Quantico or 29 Palms or something.

Couple more tests to make absolutely sure though. Please define the first two and explain the third.

Ogive
Polaris-Cochab
101 or 119
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


That clinches it for me. You knew Jarheads get their artillery training at Ft. Sill. A poseur would have said Quantico or 29 Palms or something.

Couple more tests to make absolutely sure though. Please define the first two and explain the third.

Ogive
Polaris-Cochab
101 or 119
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Ummm....the first one I'm at a loss for, Polaris-Cochab is familiar, something about land nav, I think?

Dude, I was FDC and Survey most of the time...and I learned the IFSAS by rote...so I could probably alt-A, alt N you though a fire mission, or lay some guns(with a T2-E, not an aiming circle, only the batteries used crappy old aiming circles), MP-HOB registrations maybe, but that's about it...mostly, I remember drilling in SEAD missions and trying to bracket targets...

BTW, I was at Ft. Sill TWICE....jeez, that place sucks!!
 
Oh, and ummm...101 and 119 are howitzers? If they are, they must be 105mm howitzers, because we used 155mm exclusively. Darned Army has all sorts of neat stuff the Marines never get!!
 
Zero said:
Oh, and ummm...101 and 119 are howitzers? If they are, they must be 105mm howitzers, because we used 155mm exclusively. Darned Army has all sorts of neat stuff the Marines never get!!
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The must have fully fazed out the old M-101 105mm by the time you went through. They sucked for gunnery because the declination was only 3200 mils or something like that. They even had blast shields them.

I trained on the 102 for my 105mm for gunnery. And they were just introducing the M-119 and Paladin and what would be come Cusader was still referred to as AFAS. On the obselencance side, the Guard unit I was going to was 8in. I sent about 20 of those down range during gunnery. I was supposed to do MLRS school, but never got the chance as I blew out my back during the last few weeks of OBC and was medically retired a few months after completing it and like 2 drills with my NG unit.

FAOBC was cool though as I got experience in gunnery, Fire Support and Fire Direction.

Ogive btw is where the fuse screws into the shell (technically to ogive ring) and Polaris-Kochab is a night time surveying method (again, probably obsolete in these days of GPS).
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


The must have fully fazed out the old M-101 105mm by the time you went through. They sucked for gunnery because the declination was only 3200 mils or something like that. They even had blast shields them.

I trained on the 102 for my 105mm for gunnery. And they were just introducing the M-119 and Paladin and what would be come Cusader was still referred to as AFAS. On the obselencance side, the Guard unit I was going to was 8in. I sent about 20 of those down range during gunnery. I was supposed to do MLRS school, but never got the chance as I blew out my back during the last few weeks of OBC and was medically retired a few months after completing it and like 2 drills with my NG unit.

FAOBC was cool though as I got experience in gunnery, Fire Support and Fire Direction.

Ogive btw is where the fuse screws into the shell (technically to ogive ring) and Polaris-Kochab is a night time surveying method (again, probably obsolete in these days of GPS).
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Yeah, well...when I went through, mostly what I remember about the guns was wondering why they would use bags of cordite(?) with numbers on them to propel the round, in the late 20th century...and laughing when the gun bunnies tried to do a 'hasty shift' of the guns by picking up the trails and moving the gun around by brute force!!!

LOL, and I was always weak in night survey, with the PADS and all, and the warrant officer being too lazy to go outside at night...

You ever had to fill out one of the DA 4446 books, the little brown ones that would couldn't erase in, and you had to void the whole page if you made too many mistakes? My handwriting is STILL tiny from those!
 
As someone who was in FDC you must appreciate how simple the firing process is compared to how truly difficult it would be using firing tables (and worse yet log books) to adjust simply with elevation and declination if there was just one poweder bag to fit all. That's not to say it's easy... just a hell of a lot more simple than it could be.

The gunnery was fun. I enjoyed firing the 105mm for most of our practice and and of course the 8 inch. The only guys I felt really sorry for were those using the M-198. Man what a pain the a** that must be to work on the crew. I also got to fire a 107mm mortar during a familiarization day with the Mech pukes.

Fire Direction was interesting because it challenged you mentally and you really got into the science of artillery. Fire Support was fun because we got to blow s*** up and it's more of the art of artillery.

Did you ever get to see a combined arms demonstration with a million dollar minute? The one they put on for us started with an old Civil War bronze cannon, then a French 75, introduced the M-119 and M--109A6 Paladin then progressed to the Mil$minute. We had tanks, tube artillery, Apaches, MLRS and even a B-1 out of Dyess flying around. It was amazing.

I forget most of the forms we had to fill out but I do remember how persnickerty we had to be with filling them out correctly. Nothing ends an officers career faster than a gun exploding and killing 5 people.

Did you do the old fashioned plotting boards, slide rules and log books or did they finally get rid of that stuff?
 
Graham said:
What's a million dollar minute?

Graham
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It's when all the weapons systems fire at about the same time expending "a million dollars" in ordenance in about a minute. I was able to find a Geocites page that Google showed has photos of an example, unfortunately the page was dead.
 
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