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Michael Brown Shooting

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pgwenthold said:
...and tells him to get the **** off the road. So, instead of complying with the officer's direction, hoping that by being passive the cop continues to drive on, he gets belligerent, causing the cop to turn around and come after him.

Doesn't sound so plausible to me.

If he was concerned that the cop was going to id him, why create a scene? Wouldn't it have been better to just apologize and get off the road, and not give the cop a reason to come after him?
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David Wong said:
I probably said this 20 pages ago but a good way to confuse yourself about any situation is to assume it occurred in a world in which human beings always act logically.

If Brown's judgment sucked as much as mine did when I was 18, then who knows what he did. That goes both ways - it's not like bad officer-involved shootings are purely in the realm of science fiction. They absolutely happen, for a whole spectrum of reasons.

I suspect there are JFK assassination threads on this very forum that have gone exactly the same way. "But if Oswald was really the shooter, why didn't he have a brilliant escape plan organized in advance?" Maybe because he was kind of dumb? Because humans rarely show perfect judgment or even a keen sense of self-preservation?
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Indeed, otherwise police would never accidentally catch serious criminals when stopping them for minor traffic violations. There has been at least one study (CBA to google) showing that serious criminals are more likely to commit such obvious minor traffic crimes than the general population.

Short-term thinking often trumps longer term thinking. "I want to get away from this cop, now" as opposed to "if I do run away, it will look odd". People sometimes panic and make stupid decisions.
 
Ammonitida said:
Dorian Johnson is probably the only real witness to the shooting. I suspect the others are just phonies who want their 15 minutes of fame.
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I agree, and Dorian Johnson said he ran and hid behind a car, so it is certainly possible he only had glimpses of what happened and filled the rest in with something he felt would resonate with the local community, take the heat off of himself, and put it on the cop.

ETA - Of course, it is also possible if he didn't actually see everything that happened, he just added in what he thought actually went down.
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
Removing attribution from an image is not how you avoid a copyright violation.
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Then clearly it wasn't about a copyright. It might have just been about an association.

The source image is unaltered. There was always a link to the source image, right under the altered image.

Also the words "file image" were always there.
 
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GWCarver said:
I agree, and Dorian Johnson said he ran and hid behind a car, so it is certainly possible he only had glimpses of what happened and filled the rest in with something he felt would resonate with the local community, take the heat off of himself, and put it on the cop.

ETA - Of course, it is also possible if he didn't actually see everything that happened, he just added in what he thought actually went down.
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IIRC, Johnson said the car was occupied.
 
Unabogie said:
Sounds like there's a new witness telling his story on Lawrence O'Donnell's show. Says the same things as the other witnesses, but also says Wilson was at least 20 feet from Brown when he fired all those final shots. If so, how does this square with what Wilson claims? How can Brown he "charging" him from so far away?
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Welcome to the thread; it is pretty obvious that you have not been here long with that question.

Twenty feet is not exactly in the next county. Measure it off sometime and have someone 6'4" and 18 years old run towards you and let us know how long it takes him to reach you. One second would not be an unreasonable estimate, especially if he was already running.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Yes, but it happened after FPD was taken off the case, apparently, so FPD has no incident report.

There is an incident report, I'm sure.
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From the NY Times:

According to his account to the Ferguson police, Officer Wilson said that Mr. Brown had lowered his arms and moved toward him, law enforcement officials said. Fearing that the teenager was going to attack him, the officer decided to use deadly force.
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Italics added for emphasis.
 
Unabogie said:
I thought this was about the truth of why and how Darren Wilson killed Michael Brown, not whether or not he was a nice guy or stole cigarellos in an unrelated event? Michael Brown could have just come from a baby eating feast in which he topped off his meal with puppy and kitten gravy, and the relevant question is still whether or not Darren Wilson was justified in killing him when and how he did.
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I agree about relevancy, but Brown's family, friends and supporters intentionally made his disposition an important issue by telling anyone who would listen what a gentle, caring individual he was in order to influence the situation. They essentially attempted to use his supposed "passivity" as an important piece of evidence. Johnson himself attempted this tactic hours after actually witnessing his friend manhandle and menace a store manager who had the nerve to try and stop him from taking stuff without paying.

I still think the shooting was probably unjustified, but the police had every right to put the lie to this "gentle giant" nonsense, and that's exactly what they did.
 
Brainster said:
Welcome to the thread; it is pretty obvious that you have not been here long with that question.

Twenty feet is not exactly in the next county. Measure it off sometime and have someone 6'4" and 18 years old run towards you and let us know how long it takes him to reach you. One second would not be an unreasonable estimate, especially if he was already running.
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Mythbusters did this experiment with the 21 foot rule or tueller drill which has been mentioned earlier in the thread. They wanted to see how fast Jamie could reach Adam before Adam had the ability to shoot Jamie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckz7EmDxhtU
 
GWCarver said:
I hadn't heard that. Do you know if the occupants saw what happened, or better still, recorded it?
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Apparently they did see it. They could have been facing the wrong way to see everything.

I begged and pleaded the car that I was hiding behind to just put me in their car and drive off anywhere. I don’t care where you drop me off at. I don’t blame them for not letting me in at the moment, because they couldn’t understand the situation. They don’t know why the officer was shooting at us, so I understand why they pulled off.
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LTC8K6 said:
Apparently they did see it. They could have been facing the wrong way to see everything.
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Thanks a lot. Just one more question: Do you know if the occupants of the car that Dorian said drove off have been identified?
 
GWCarver said:
Thanks a lot. Just one more question: Do you know if the occupants of the car that Dorian said drove off have been identified?
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No idea about that, or if they even exist.

If Johnson is telling the truth, then his attorneys will be trying hard to find them.

If Johnson is lying, then Johnson is not going to want them to testify.
 
LTC8K6 said:
It has been very common to confuse the police forces in this case, though.

Is a statement the same as an incident report?
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Not really. An incident report kind of memorializes an event. For instance, I steal your lawnmower. When you wake up in the morning and see it gone, you will call the police. They will come out, take your statement and fill out an incident report. Let's say the responding officer is bored. He walks next door to your helpful neighbor and ask if they've seen anything. Why yes she said. 40ish, short hair, handsome and loading a lawnmower. The police will take her statement and update the incident report. The officer goes to the neighborhood c-store and checks security footage. In that video, he sees me pull up with a lawnmower in the back of the truck. The police gets a copy of the video, enters it as evidence and files a narrative description of his find.

Whenever I get arrested for the theft, the prosecutor will pull out the incident report then start going over all the parts of it. In this case, she has a statement from you, a statement from your neighbor, some items marked as evidence and a police narrative.

In this case, it seems that SLCSO took the investigation very early -- it's not inconceivable that they were primary by set policy -- so they would be responsible for the kind of master incident report which would contain the individual items generated by the investigation. For instance, in the robbery investigation, there is the initiating incident report, then a supplement describing the OIS which closed the investigation in narrative form.
 
theprestige said:
I think he's "dating" that because he performed a robbery it's reasonable to include "Brown initiated a violent confrontation" in the list of narratives that we should consider.

Do you disagree?

ETA: Put it another way. Brown may have deserved to die for all sorts of reasons (though I wouldn't include robbery among them). But the only reason that really matters here is if he gave Wilson reason to fear for his life. Do you believe, based on the evidence currently available, that we should even consider that possibility?
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NO. Wilson may or may not say he feared for his life but since we don't have any evidence that was the case, we just don't know yet. The only thing we do know is Wilson shot Michael Brown.
 
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