• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Michael Brown Shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
Unabogie said:
No, but he didn't have it on his hands or body, that we know. I agree we need more info, but this witness's interview matches the forensics so far.

As for twenty feet not being far away, we know that it was Wilson covering that ground, not Brown. We also know that Brown had already been shot once and was running away, even by Wilson's alleged story. The only part in dispute is that Wilson claims Brown turned and ran back towards him, but there were at least 4 witnesses, maybe more, and none of them agree with this.

Don't you find it incredible that Wilson was allowed to leave town without so much as writing any of this down? I'm still floored by the fact that there's no incident report from him. Also speculation, but isn't it possible he did file an incident report but it's been "lost" because it was unhelpful to him? I don't find the Ferguson PD at all credible, and judging by their behavior the last two weeks, they seem capable of all kinds of things we wouldn't expect from professionals.
Click to expand...
With the rapid eruption of social unrest and outright rioting that this incident precipitated, it seems like having the officer somewhere undisclosed and out of town was a good idea.
 
Distracted1 said:
With the rapid eruption of social unrest and outright rioting that this incident precipitated, it seems like having the officer somewhere undisclosed and out of town was a good idea.
Click to expand...

That doesn't explain it at all. He was seen mowing his lawn two days after the shooting, so he didn't just hop in a car and leave. Over those two days -- in fact, as soon as he returned to the station -- they should have had him write out what happened. How is it that this didn't happen?

ETA: Mowing his lawn...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/u...wilson-2-paths-to-a-fatal-encounter.html?_r=1

One neighbor said he knew Officer Wilson was on the Ferguson police force, and figured out that he might be linked to the shooting of Mr. Brown when police cars, marked and unmarked, started showing up in the neighborhood several days ago. Then on Tuesday, Officer Wilson began mowing his lawn, but “he did not finish,” said the neighbor, who wore a faded Cardinals T-shirt and camouflage shorts. “It appears they left in a hurry.”
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
applecorped said:
Evidence? I mean real evidence.
Click to expand...

Four cops beat an innocent guy in the Ferguson jail, all told the same story, all retracted their stories when evidence was found lacking and the jail cell camera just coincidentally didn't work that day.

What does it take for you to look past your confirmation bias?

Innocence Project - Government Misconduct
DNA exonerations have exposed official misconduct at every level and stage of a criminal investigation.

Common forms of misconduct by law enforcement officials include:

• Employing suggestion when conducting identification procedures
• Coercing false confessions
• Lying or intentionally misleading jurors about their observations
• Failing to turn over exculpatory evidence to prosecutors
• Providing incentives to secure unreliable evidence from informants
Common forms of misconduct by prosecutors include:

• Withholding exculpatory evidence from defense
• Deliberately mishandling, mistreating or destroying evidence
• Allowing witnesses they know or should know are not truthful to testify
• Pressuring defense witnesses not to testify
• Relying on fraudulent forensic experts
• Making misleading arguments that overstate the probative value of testimony
Click to expand...

Preventable Error: A Report on Prosecutorial
Misconduct in California 1997–2009
Identifying 707 cases [out of 4,000] in which prosecutorial misconduct was found—on average, about one case a week—undoubtedly understates the total number of such cases. These 707 are just the cases identified in review of appellate cases and a handful of others found through media searches and other means.
Click to expand...
The real question is, why do so many people who consider themselves skeptics ignore so much evidence of how common police and prosecutor lying actually is?
 
Last edited:
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Yeah, why can't people just accept that he was a happy-go-lucky teenager skipping home from the malt shop early because he had to go volunteer at the crippled children's home?
Click to expand...


Yes, and the reason we know this is true is because, as the gentle giant's friend and fellow crippled children's orphanage volunteer Dorian Johnson told us, Big Mike had his mind set on helping others.

ZRLVOv3.gif
 
newyorkguy,

If you are interested in coerced confessions and malicious prosecutions that could be described as downright evil, check out the Ken Burns documentary on The Central Park Five (on dvd or even the book by Sarah Burns) and the Frontline documentary on the Norfolk Four "The Confessions" linked below. Guaranteed to make your blood boil.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-confessions/
 
Unabogie said:
Don't you find it incredible that Wilson was allowed to leave town without so much as writing any of this down? I'm still floored by the fact that there's no incident report from him. Also speculation, but isn't it possible he did file an incident report but it's been "lost" because it was unhelpful to him? I don't find the Ferguson PD at all credible, and judging by their behavior the last two weeks, they seem capable of all kinds of things we wouldn't expect from professionals.
Click to expand...

It's ridiculous to assert that Wilson didn't provide a narrative. There is exactly zero evidence that this was the case.
 
Unabogie said:
That doesn't explain it at all. He was seen mowing his lawn two days after the shooting, so he didn't just hop in a car and leave. Over those two days -- in fact, as soon as he returned to the station -- they should have had him write out what happened. How is it that this didn't happen?...
Click to expand...
Are you sure he didn't? I thought he gave his statement about what happened to the county police official (not sure of the title of this investigator) the day of the shooting?

In one of the first press conferences, I thought the assistant police chief mentioned something about the at the time unnamed officer giving his statement to someone else in the department, not to the chief. I thought he said county, but I could have that wrong.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Are you sure he didn't? I thought he gave his statement about what happened to the county police official (not sure of the title of this investigator) the day of the shooting?

In one of the first press conferences, I thought the assistant police chief mentioned something about the at the time unnamed officer giving his statement to someone else in the department, not to the chief. I thought he said county, but I could have that wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was revealed today there is no incident report.
 
Unabogie said:
<snip>

Don't you find it incredible that Wilson was allowed to leave town without so much as writing any of this down? I'm still floored by the fact that there's no incident report from him. <snip>
Click to expand...

I find it unfortunate but I don't find it incredible. Not at all. I've known too many cops. Maybe they're a different breed in New York but cops here joke that when an officer comes under investigation for an on-duty incident the first words out of their mouth are, "I want to see the delegate."

Under the union rules an officer is not required to make a statement to commanders or investigators without being first given the opportunity to speak with a union representative aka "the delegate." And I believe they can have the rep present during questioning.

It's a two-tiered process. The officer has civil rights, the same as any citizen, but has one burden the average citizen does not have. To comply with departmental regulations they must make a report and cooperate with department investigators. They can be charged with violating departmental regulations if they're not cooperative. The problem comes in, so I've "heard," when the local commander, for various reasons, is sympathetic to the officer. I've heard that, a local precinct commander may require nothing from the officer in some cases. They'll let them go off-duty without anything other than a cursory report. That's so if and when Internal Affairs detectives arrive they have nothing to work with. When the officer is questioned by Internal Affairs the legal protections all citizens enjoy kick in. They don't have to answer questions because of the potential legal liability they may face. The IA detectives can't force them to answer because if they do, and there is a criminal prosecution, anything they obtained might be inadmissible in court. They can still file department charges but even then, the penalties the officer faces are in many ways a subject of collective bargaining agreements.

It's tough to fire a civil service employee.

I'm not 100% sure this is exactly the way it works but I'm sure it's close. Maybe BStrong or Bikewer can state definitively how it works.
 
Unabogie said:
Sounds like there's a new witness telling his story on Lawrence O'Donnell's show. Says the same things as the other witnesses, but also says Wilson was at least 20 feet from Brown when he fired all those final shots. If so, how does this square with what Wilson claims? How can Brown he "charging" him from so far away? I think the final autopsy will tell more of the story, but since we know that Brown had no GSR on him, that sort of precludes being within 3-5 feet of the gun for any of the shots.

ETA: Video won't be available until tomorrow, so I can't link to the new witness.
Click to expand...

Considering all the hysteria, ignorance, looting, rioting and racial hatred that this case has generated among the black residents of Ferguson, these new "witnesses" are about as credible as the "witnesses" to the Roswell event. In the crowd of protestors, there was a black woman holding up a "black Hebrew" sign which called for the deaths of all "devils" (white people), and none in the crowd called her out on that. People like that can't be trusted to tell the truth. This case has been tainted by identity politics, so unless there's a 1080p video of the shooting that corroborates these supposed witnesses, or God herself comes down to declare that Brown was murdered, I will disregard all of them.

Right now, it's all about the forensics, and the fact that Brown was a confirmed THUG who assaulted an officer in the face just minutes after he robbed a store through intimidation and violence.
 
It's strange that Darren Wilson executed someone in broad daylight with no regard for witnesses. (Witnesses whose accounts do not match the reported forensics, which would indicate a massive police conspiracy.)

Yes, yes, the story was initially influenced by Dorian Johnson's account, and he may have omitted a few trivial facts: he and Brown had just come from a robbery, he's accused of filing at least one false police report in the past, and Brown was not shot in the back.
 
Last edited:
Cain said:
It's strange that Darren Wilson executed someone in broad daylight with no regard for witnesses. (Witnesses whose accounts do not match the reported forensics, which would indicate a massive police conspiracy.)

Yes, yes, the story was initially influenced by Dorian Johnson's account. He omitted a few trivial facts: he and Brown had just come from a robbery, he's accused of filing at least one false police report in the past, and Brown was not shot in the back.
Click to expand...

Dorian Johnson is probably the only real witness to the shooting. I suspect the others are just phonies who want their 15 minutes of fame.
 
theprestige said:
Stick to the scenario.

But seriously, of course no one here has ever said that. Michael Brown would never skip. He would walk soberly with measured step, as he contemplated the plight of the poor children, and meditated on how he could better help them get better opportunities in life.
Click to expand...

No one ever said that either.
 
theprestige said:
I think he's "dating" that because he performed a robbery it's reasonable to include "Brown initiated a violent confrontation" in the list of narratives that we should consider.

Do you disagree?

ETA: Put it another way. Brown may have deserved to die for all sorts of reasons (though I wouldn't include robbery among them). But the only reason that really matters here is if he gave Wilson reason to fear for his life. Do you believe, based on the evidence currently available, that we should even consider that possibility?
Click to expand...

A lot of things possible. Since we don't know a whole lot in factual sense yet, we can't know if he deserved to die.
 
a_unique_person said:
A lot of things possible. Since we don't know a whole lot in factual sense yet, we can't know if he deserved to die.
Click to expand...

The question isn't whether he deserved to die. The answer to that is almost certainly no. The question is who bears responsibility for the circumstances of his death and was that death a crime.
 
Ammonitida said:
Considering all the hysteria, ignorance, looting, rioting and racial hatred that this case has generated among the black residents of Ferguson, these new "witnesses" are about as credible as the "witnesses" to the Roswell event. In the crowd of protestors, there was a black woman holding up a "black Hebrew" sign which called for the deaths of all "devils" (white people), and none in the crowd called her out on that. People like that can't be trusted to tell the truth. This case has been tainted by identity politics, so unless there's a 1080p video of the shooting that corroborates these supposed witnesses, or God herself comes down to declare that Brown was murdered, I will disregard all of them.

Right now, it's all about the forensics, and the fact that Brown was a confirmed THUG who assaulted an officer in the face just minutes after he robbed a store through intimidation and violence.
Click to expand...

Just brilliant. Your little parlor trick allows you to simply ignore all witnesses, no matter how many there are. True skeptic!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom