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Michael Brown Shooting

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Kaosium said:
This is from before they'd identified Officer Wilson, so the 'officer' in the below timeline is Wilson:



"11:48 a.m. to noon – An officer responds to a call of a sick person.

11:51 a.m. – Another call comes in about a robbery at a convenience store. The dispatcher gives a description of the robber and says the suspect is walking toward the Quick Trip convenience store.

12:01 p.m. – The officer encounters Michael Brown and a friend as they walk down a street. Brown is shot to death as a result of the encounter.

12:04 p.m. – A second officer arrives on the scene followed by a supervisor one minute later. An ambulance responding to the earlier sick person call drives by and responds to assess Brown."​

There was an ambulance on the scene almost immediately and according to reports early in the thread Wilson was removed from the scene soon after the incident.
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Yeah, I thought I read quick removal. Somebody said by an assistant Chief of Police. Maybe to seek care, maybe to get him away from the gathering crowd?
 
casebro said:
Yeah, I thought I read quick removal. Somebody said by an assistant Chief of Police. Maybe to seek care, maybe to get him away from the gathering crowd?
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Probably both and the 'supervisor' in the above timeline was likely that assistant Chief of Police.
 
KatieG said:
He would be in extreme pain and not able to stand, gloating, for hours over the body of the young man he killed. On this issue, I can speak from personal experience.
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I don't know about your experience but from mine I can tell you this.

That is not true. I got in a bar fight once when I was a young man and got hit from the side with some type object and it broke my orbital bone and I didn't realize it until the next day. Didn't even knock me out, stunned me yes but I wasn't screaming in pain and incapacitated.
 
stanfr said:
What hyperbole? The original hypothetical posed by Cain was ridiculous, I was just pointing out how ridiculous it was. Now please respond to my question, which you seem unwilling or unable to do:
Can one pose a hypothetical in which we have a black cop and white suspect, and expect the same reaction from the press and community? That's what Can and Skeptic Tank were arguing...read the post I was responding too (apparently you haven't) and respond to my question: does context matter?
A coherent 'yes' or 'no' would be a good start.
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The problem is that many of the officer's critics have (ironically) jumped the gun, and been quick to condemn the situation based almost entirely on race. The hypothetical scenario laid keeps as many facts the same as possible while switching the races, which somehow suggests the officer is more sympathetic, at least to my left-wing eyes. Is it exactly the same because of years of slavery, segregation and discrimination? No. But that your first and only move is to sputter things about race history indicates you're not thinking capable of thinking about this outside of race. It's backward reasoning. Instead we should start with the physics of what happened.


jimbob said:
I'd say that is subtly different. I have no problem in the idea that Brown's actions would be affected by that. However the police should respond to Brown's actions at the time. In my view, shooting is justified to prevent an imminent threat of (severe) injury. At the moment I am not sure whether or not this was the case.
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Look at how the thread has evolved. First, Brown was allegedly killed for committing the crime of being black.

Then he was killed for being black and committing a robbery.

Now it's moved to some grey zone where he's guilty of being black, committing a robbery, jaywalking, assaulting a police officer and trying to take his firearm, and then attempting to charge a police officer.

I think the initial claim that Wilson executed Brown in cold blood was highly questionable, and that's the one that resonated with the public, what with people holding their open hands high above their heads. It's drifted away from innocent teen who wants to go to school to robber/bully/thug and rationalizations.

If a person takes a strong, initial position, they're anchored in it. Moving away becomes difficult, which is what I've seen in this thread.
 
Brainster said:
That does not say he shot at Brown's back. He may have been firing a warning shot...
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Since Josie seemed confident that the ballistics would prove Brown was not shot in the back, perhaps Wilson had fired a warning. Witnesses mistook Brown as sustaining gun fire since he would understandably spasm at the crack of each shot. As someone else mentions, it seems unlikely Brown would taunt "you're not gonna shoot me" if warning shots had been fired.
 
Drysdale said:
I don't know about your experience but from mine I can tell you this.

That is not true. I got in a bar fight once when I was a young man and got hit from the side with some type object and it broke my orbital bone and I didn't realize it until the next day. Didn't even knock me out, stunned me yes but I wasn't screaming in pain and incapacitated.
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Are you positing humans experience chemical rush? Ridiculous. What do you call it -- phlogiston, adrenalin?
 
Drysdale said:
I don't know about your experience but from mine I can tell you this.

That is not true. I got in a bar fight once when I was a young man and got hit from the side with some type object and it broke my orbital bone and I didn't realize it until the next day. Didn't even knock me out, stunned me yes but I wasn't screaming in pain and incapacitated.
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Huh. So maybe that kind of injury is not serious enough to warrant...you know... six bullets.
 
Unabogie said:
Huh. So maybe that kind of injury is not serious enough to warrant...you know... six bullets.
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Assault on a police officer need not be gradiated.

And if Brown turned turned and charged the cop six was barely enough.

Hey, note that Wilson stopped shooting after the kill shot to the top of the head. He was not in such a rage that he kept putting bullets into the body on the ground.
 
Cain said:
Since Josie seemed confident that the ballistics would prove Brown was not shot in the back, perhaps Wilson had fired a warning. Witnesses mistook Brown as sustaining gun fire since he would understandably spasm at the crack of each shot. As someone else mentions, it seems unlikely Brown would taunt "you're not gonna shoot me" if warning shots had been fired.
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Unlikely, maybe.
If Mr. Brown realized that the officer could have shot him but didn't, he might also have come to the conclusion that he wouldn't.
Although we know next to nothing, it isn't hard to imagine a warning shot causing Mr. Brown to stop, then turn around- perhaps with his hands raised, take a moment to think on it, then make a very teenage assessment that " he isn't going to shoot me " ( his aggression had,just minutes before ,cowed the store clerk into withdrawing ) then begin towards the policeman. Perhaps expecting more warning shots.

Not implausible.
 
So what are the possible strategies for leaking so much evidence that backs the cop?
 
stanfr said:
What hyperbole? The original hypothetical posed by Cain was ridiculous, I was just pointing out how ridiculous it was. Now please respond to my question, which you seem unwilling or unable to do:
Can one pose a hypothetical in which we have a black cop and white suspect, and expect the same reaction from the press and community? That's what Can and Skeptic Tank were arguing...read the post I was responding too (apparently you haven't) and respond to my question: does context matter?
A coherent 'yes' or 'no' would be a good start.
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Not sure what you're on about, you can "pose" whatever your little heart desires, but when jump off the deep end and link slavery to these present day events, I'm going to point out how absurd it is.
 
casebro said:
Assault on a police officer need not be gradiated.

And if Brown turned turned and charged the cop six was barely enough.

Hey, note that Wilson stopped shooting after the kill shot to the top of the head. He was not in such a rage that he kept putting bullets into the body on the ground.
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Assault on a police officer does not allow him to shoot at a fleeing, unarmed person. They're admitting that now, right? He shot at his back. And no witness saw Brown charge. You just made that up.
 
Distracted1 said:
Unlikely, maybe.
If Mr. Brown realized that the officer could have shot him but didn't, he might also have come to the conclusion that he wouldn't.
Although we know next to nothing, it isn't hard to imagine a warning shot causing Mr. Brown to stop, then turn around- perhaps with his hands raised, take a moment to think on it, then make a very teenage assessment that " he isn't going to shoot me " ( his aggression had,just minutes before ,cowed the store clerk into withdrawing ) then begin towards the policeman. Perhaps expecting more warning shots.

Not implausible.
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Not implausible, I agree. People do stupid things every day. Simply racking up a record for a few cheap cigars is incredibly dumb, and suggests poor impulse control. However, if Wilson had fired without intending to shoot Brown -- essentially a warning shot -- Brown could not know that the officer didn't mean to hit. He could guess that the Wilson didn't have the guts, or wouldn't have the guts to hit someone face-to-face.
 
casebro said:
So what are the possible strategies for leaking so much evidence that backs the cop?
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If one assumes the leaks are policy -- and I'm not at all convinced of that -- then one obvious benefit would be to prepare the public for a no-bill. I think the strategy of having a grand jury investigation instead of presenting a bill of indictment is to delay the process to let the fire burn itself out.
 
carlitos said:
Why in the world not? I know of one neighborhood where folks were intimidated by young people walking in the middle of the street, intimidating motorists and refusing to move. It's a pretty big deal in some places. Should a cop "say a word" if the kids refuse to move out of his car's way?
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Yeah I don't get this either, it's not as if they were crossing or cutting across the street, they were walking down the middle of the road. "Down" being the key word.

I wonder if SG drives a car.
When one or more people are blocking a two way street it's difficult for cars to get by, especially if there are other cars around moving or parked. I know if the police force in my area encountered two individuals sauntering down the road I'd hope they'd do something about it.
 
As for being shot six times... I'll never forget when a man here Southern California tried to gun down his lawyer outside the courthouse. The lawyer ducks and dodges from behind a tree, and in the video it looks like he emerges almost unscathed. In fact, he had taken five(?) shots at close range.



Brown's a huge man, and if he did try to take Wilson's gun earlier, then the officer could reasonably fear for his life.
 
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