Mexican Airforce films UFOs

[Thomas]

The last couple of days I have talked to a UFO researcher via email. We have exchanged data, and he have send me his analysis and his data collection of this phenomena. His paper on this is no less than 14 A4 pages long, and is far the most structured and comprehensive analysis I've seen of this phenomena so far. I have asked him for permission to publish his findings in here, however, he have asked me not to do that since he doesn't find that it is complete, and I will respect that wish.

I have yet to get an overview of the entire analysis because it contains quite an amount of data I haven't had the time to verify yet. He have contancted FLIR Systems like I did, and asked them some very good questions, furthermore he have contacted Maussan to get in touch with SEDENA through him.

I asked him to read this thread, and he wasn't exactly positive concerning the huge amount of theories based on very few details he saw in here.

However, since we can't be 100% sure that the objects isn't grounded, I have analyzed how these objects could be grounded based on the data we have so far:

If the altitude was 3.5 km, and the maximum distance for detecting oilflare sized heatsources is 20 km. This basically means that the objects would have to be within a radius of 19.6 km of the ground point where the airplane was. Furthermore they would have to look down at a maximum of 79.9 degrees.

So, it could be quite interesting to find out if there's any industry working with heat, in one way or the other, in the area of Escarcega city(?). This could be so many things that I don't even want to guess, because it would be no more than a wild guess ranging from trucks loaded with some sort of heat sources, to simple factories. However, it's a possiblity that shouldn't be excluded at this point. Although I personally find it highly unlikely based on the data granted by SEDENA so far.

Do anyone know of any industries working with extreme heat in the Escarcega area?

 

[Patricio Elicer]

We went through this earlier in the thread Patricio. I believe the elevation indication is wrt to the aircraft. (It shows the camera's vertical deviation from the aircraft's datum line)

Thanks, mummymonkey, I guess I must pay more attention .

Then, if the camera elevation marker is wrt the aircraft, then the only way for the camera to point at a ground based object AND for the screen elevation marker to be on the positives, is that the plane is significantly tilted. Am I right on this?. Don't tell me this has been discussed earlier!

 

[wipeout]

This thread has grown to such proportions that it's quite understandable if people miss bits.

I pointed out earlier that the plane would need to be flying tilted by a tiny amount (only couple of degrees) for the readings to make sense for ground objects on the horizon.

Something I didn't say was that the plane was flying eastwards but I think the aircrew said they were heading for Campeche which is well to the north, so even more of a tilt than a couple of degrees might well be intentional to turn leftwards.

I really must work out the aircraft's other locations and flight directions during the footage to try and confirm where it goes.

I should do a summary of all that's for and against my oil-flare theory.

 

[wipeout]

Originally posted by Thomas The last couple of days I have talked to a UFO researcher via email. We have exchanged data, and he have send me his analysis and his data collection of this phenomena. His paper on this is no less than 14 A4 pages long, and is far the most structured and comprehensive analysis I've seen of this phenomena so far. I have asked him for permission to publish his findings in here, however, he have asked me not to do that since he doesn't find that it is complete, and I will respect that wish.

I have yet to get an overview of the entire analysis because it contains quite an amount of data I haven't had the time to verify yet. He have contancted FLIR Systems like I did, and asked them some very good questions, furthermore he have contacted Maussan to get in touch with SEDENA through him.

Very interesting. I've yet to hear back from Mr. Randi, Mr. Oberg or Captain Franz.

I asked him to read this thread, and he wasn't exactly positive concerning the huge amount of theories based on very few details he saw in here.

However, since we can't be 100% sure that the objects isn't grounded, I have analyzed how these objects could be grounded based on the data we have so far:

If the altitude was 3.5 km, and the maximum distance for detecting oilflare sized heatsources is 20 km. This basically means that the objects would have to be within a radius of 19.6 km of the ground point where the airplane was. Furthermore they would have to look down at a maximum of 79.9 degrees.

So, it could be quite interesting to find out if there's any industry working with heat, in one way or the other, in the area of Escarcega city(?). This could be so many things that I don't even want to guess, because it would be no more than a wild guess ranging from trucks loaded with some sort of heat sources, to simple factories. However, it's a possiblity that shouldn't be excluded at this point. Although I personally find it highly unlikely based on the data granted by SEDENA so far.

Do anyone know of any industries working with extreme heat in the Escarcega area?

Escarcega is an interesting alternative ground-based theory, dependent on the aircraft having a much more severe tilt as it flies. I myself haven't pursued it because the aircraft seems to be flying in a straight line while it would have this tilt.

I worked out for aircraft location and direction of the camera, the closest objects to Escarcega would need to be 5 km to the southwest of it to be in line with the camera. So they'd be just outside what looks like a large town.

Also, there are actually 4 sources of infrared seen with the clear ground features in the footage. They look exactly like the "UFO" objects. I guess they must be around 5 to 15 km away but I don't know the location of the aircraft at that time. I will try and work that out.

This is 10 minutes before the main sighting. So the aircraft flew over something ground-based and very similar to the "UFOs" at one point.

There may be more oil-facilities to the eastern side of the huge lagoon, much nearer Escarcega. I've never ruled it out, just that the aircraft tilt would have tiny for distant objects and quite severe for ones as close as this, so I prefer the distant objects version. I said in an earlier post:

I believe it is something oil-industry related in this area that the camera is seeing. Could be at sea or on land, but somewhere around that map ...

I've never ruled out that it might be oil-related to the east side of the lagoon. We'd be talking about objects maybe 40 km away then if they were on the eastern coast of the lagoon.

Of course, you can have objects near Escarcega within 20km easily and then aircraft tilt is one of the potential problems.

 

[Thomas]

Of course, you can have objects near Escarcega within 20km easily and then aircraft tilt is one of the potential problems.

The irony is, that even if there was any potential heat sources in that area I would still be skeptic, and not at all convinced. But according to the calculations I have made based on the data we have so far, I believe that it's the only possibility to have grounded objects obtained by the FLIR.

I've seen another theory on another forum, concerning vortex rings. I have asked the guy who proposed that theory to elaborate on the heat indications and radar readings, still no answer - but so far it's interesting.
Another guy strongly believes that it was helium ballons, he just want give it up and support his claim with one picture of hot air ballons after the other - it's quite funny to read his (nonsense) arguments.

Anyway, I'm trying to sort this out with an american scientist from MUFON who have the original video, unedited, I could see that from his analysis because he uses timestamps beyond the videos we have. It's a mini DV recording converted to S-VHS. I'm of course trying to get a copy from him and I'm somewhere near the begging stage right now.
He told me that Maussan, actually, asked him to analyse it, and he agreed to do so if he got a copy of the original video - so there. From what I can read from his analysis, a coastline seems to appear at a certain point we don't have any recording of. I still haven't recieved an answer to my request, but he have been most helpful so far I must say, and this is despite that he's a UFO researcher who doesn't very much like skeptics. I must add to that, that he works in a highly scientific manner, and is very well educated, he's not the typical woowoo at all, it's actually kind of scary that he doesn't reject the existence of ET's - keep your fingers crossed people, from the analysis of the unpublished parts of this video, I think it could clear up a great deal.

 

[wipeout]

An unedited video? That would be very interesting even if it was just pictures from other parts of it.

 

[Thomas]

An unedited video? That would be very interesting even if it was just pictures from other parts of it.

Oh yes.. And it's more than 5 hours in duration

My primary request is the entire video, still frames must remain the second choice. If I get the entire video, it will still have to be shipped from Mexico or USA to here, Denmark, and when it arrives I will then have to convert it back to a digital format from a high quality VHS recorder. Then I will publish it on my FTP server.

If my request should be turned down, I will take advantage of Patricio's offer and write a polite email to SEDENA asking them for the original mini DV recording. They can easily place it on my FTP server since they already have it in avi/mpeg-format.
If SEDENA turn me down on this request, I will remind them, politely, that they put their reputation at risk if they only allow UFO advocates to see the original recording. But still, let's see what the answer to my request to the MUFON researcher will be first.

 

[wipeout]

Oh yes.. And it's more than 5 hours in duration

5 hours!

The incident itself was less then an hour, I think. I guess the 5 hours must be taking off, flying around, the incident, flying around some more and then landing.

I notice that no-one's ever said how the incident ends.... I don't know why.

 

[Kitty Chan]

Go Team Go

wipeout, thomas et el

Thought I would let you know from my humble observation, that you guys are doing a marveleous job.

I keep checking to see how its going, like I said I cant help with the radar tech stuff but I will forward some sites on the "politics" of this.

JAIME MAUSSAN'S PRESS BRIEFING DOCUMENT
heres a article which mentions a "new era of relationship among the Mexican UFO witnesses, skywatchers, ufologists and our military forces will try to establish and give form to a new legislation in our law"

The above article is on this page

http://www.ufoevidence.org/feature/MexicanAirForce.htm

Also on that page is a article on the Skeptics Counterattack, I wonder if they were given all the footage and info golden boy Jamie was.

The other article about the real issue says alot. Im not surprised that the footage is not their prime concern.

Rather "researchers here in Mexico our main interest in this
investigation is not the footage itself but the long awaited UFO
disclosure by our military institutions"

Oh yes, I can see that the military disclosure is more important than what they are disclosing.

Oh silly me . . . I forgot that way we can $tudy the$e ufo'$ far into the future!

 

[Thomas]

I notice that no-one's ever said how the incident ends.... I don't know why.

According to the papers I got here, it all ends as the lights fade out. The tape ends at 17:28:06.

There are several interesting points in these papers, especially that one of the lights moves in front of a cloud at a certain timestamp we don't have access to - for now. If that's correct, that rules out the ground-object theory once and for all.

 

[Thomas]

Re: Go Team Go

Thought I would let you know from my humble observation, that you guys are doing a marveleous job.

Thank you, and just keep those excellent links coming

Also on that page is a article on the Skeptics Counterattack, I wonder if they were given all the footage and info golden boy Jamie was.

As you might already know, Mexico is a country with daily supernatural and paranormal observations, and it's somewhat natural to the common Mexican and not considered a big deal. In the middle of this hypocrisy, Maussan is considered a hero. A valiant knight of the truth - he's very popular in Mexico. If SEDENA had granted the material to, say, Phillip Klass or Bernard Haisch instead, the majority of the mexican population would have shouted 'Conspiracy! Cover up!'.

I think this is why SEDENA gave the material to Maussan, and I don't think they sympathize with him at all, to be quite frank. I believe they want this case solved as much as we do, and they knew the skeptics would be over this case like hawks when they got Maussan to publish it. It's a win/win-situation for SEDENA no matter if they thought about it this way, or not

 

[Thomas]

I have recieved an answer from the MUFON researcher: He have been asked by Maussan not to copy the video.
However, he gave me Maussan's direct email address and adviced me to ask him myself.

I will compose a request for Maussan by tomorrow.

 

[wipeout]

Re: Go Team Go

wipeout, thomas et el

Thought I would let you know from my humble observation, that you guys are doing a marveleous job.

Thank you. I think we have been going on a bit, though.

 

[Patricio Elicer]

Damn!!,... things don't look good, and I was holding my breath about that possibility. I think I can anticipate what Maussán's answer will be like

But in the end, it is SEDENA who holds the copyright for the tape, not Maussán, right?

I don't know if SEDENA has handed the video directly to other researchers, but I recall that scientists of the Universidad Autónoma de México (UNAM) said that they would formally ask SEDENA to give them the entire material. Julio Herrera is the UNAM scientist that made the statement if my memory serves. Maybe you should try contacting him as well?. Again, I can help with the English-Spanish translation.

In the worst of all scenarios, however, we will get the report of the UFO researcher sometime, right?. If you say he's a trusty person, so be it.

 

[wipeout]

I have recieved an answer from the MUFON researcher: He have been asked by Maussan not to copy the video.
However, he gave me Maussan's direct email address and adviced me to ask him myself.

I will compose a request for Maussan by tomorrow.

Cool. If he does not agree to make a copy available, then I'll be the one shouting "Conspiracy! Cover up!"

 

[Thomas]

Damn!!,... things don't look good, and I was holding my breath about that possibility. I think I can anticipate what Maussán's answer will be like

Yea, my hopes with Maussan are not too high either. Otherwise he would already have published the original version by now.

But in the end, it is SEDENA who holds the copyright for the tape, not Maussán, right?

Not only do they hold the copyright, they also hold a mini DV format version they can easily send me over the net.

I don't know if SEDENA has handed the video directly to other researchers, but I recall that scientists of the Universidad Autónoma de México (UNAM) said that they would formally ask SEDENA to give them the entire material. Julio Herrera is the UNAM scientist that made the statement if my memory serves. Maybe you should try contacting him as well?

I've already been searching for Herrera's email address a couple of times because I wanted the details of the ball lightning theory, but I can't find it anywhere. All those Spanish pages drives me nuts, and the altavista babel fish makes it worse. If you can find it for me it would be great.

Again, I can help with the English-Spanish translation.

The relevance of this offer is increasing I must say.

In the worst of all scenarios, however, we will get the report of the UFO researcher sometime, right?. If you say he's a trusty person, so be it.

He have told me he will publish it on his website as soon as he consider it done. But despite that I admire his methods and research skills, I can't be satisfied with second hand interpretations. Let fair be fair, MUFON will do what they can to prove that UFO's are genuine.

 

[Patricio Elicer]

In the interim, let's relax and have some fun with this picture, that some people seriously think depicts an ET taking a walk in Santiago's Parque Forestal.

The guy who took the picture assures that there's no fakery involved, and that the photo is blurry because the camera automatically set to a low shutter speed, since it was late afternoon when the sun has already set.

I wonder if it's one of the Mexican UFOs crew members who decided to go out and take a look at this new planet, and chose Santiago city as his first touristic destination

 

[Thomas]

I wonder if it's one of the Mexican UFOs crew members who decided to go out and take a look at this new planet, and chose Santiago city as his first touristic destination

Hah, get real.. It's obviously a Bigfoot! Because they are known to stay in out-of-camera-focus areas

 

[Patricio Elicer]

Hah, get real.. It's obviously a Bigfoot! Because they are known to stay in out-of-camera-focus areas

Yeah!, Bigfoot, as well as ETs, must radiate a special kind of "energy" that makes pictures of them to go out of focus

I already found info about Julio Herrera. He's the Head of the "Department of the Physics of Plasma and Radiation Interaction with Matter" of the Institute of Nuclear Sciences (I hope I got the translation right)

http://www.nuclecu.unam.mx/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=4&page=4

His email address is this

 

[wipeout]

Now that is quite plainly a hobbit.

I wonder if it's one of the Mexican UFOs crew members who decided to go out and take a look at this new planet, and chose Santiago city as his first touristic destination

I say they flew over to Campeche to check out which oil-company they should buy shares in.