[Merged] Immortality & Bayesian Statistics

[Akhenaten]

Duplicating that biology would produce a duplicate of you. It would be a distinct organism that would be identical to you. All the characteristics, including its sense of self, would be determined by biology, just like every other organism.

- But, what are the odds that I would live again?

The same as the odds of you living two lives simultaneously.

Unless you're a Borg.

 

[Akhenaten]

Good Morning, Mr. Savage.

I wonder if you are aware that you and godless dave are not alone in the room?

I wonder why, when you were given a one-on-one venue, with all the limitations you insisted upon, you kippered off; yet here, where it is rude, and dismissive, and disrespectful, so to do, you pretend there is only one interlocutor...

Ah, well.

Hmm . . .

I think I've had one of those epiphany things.

 

[Akhenaten]

It wouldn't be you. It would be another person identical to you. Creating a second person identical to you after you have died would not make you "live again", any more than creating a second person identical to you while you were still alive would mean that you would be looking through two pairs of eyes.

Remember: if you have two identical items, you have two of them, not one.

Mojo,
- Does that mean that the odds are zero that you would live again?

Do you have any idea how annoying it is that you repeatedly ask people if what they just said is what they just said?

 

[Akhenaten]

- But, why would the odds that I would live again be any less than the odds that I would live the first time?

Because a duplicate of you wouldn't be you, it would be him.

 

[Akhenaten]

Dave,
- Just to make sure -- such a duplicate of me, would not be the same me. It wouldn't be that I came back to life. Is that correct?

It wouldn't even be a different you. It would be someone else.

But there's something even more amusing about this silly hypothetical that you seem stuck on.

If it was possible (and we know it's not) to create a duplicate that was exactly the same right down to sub-atomic level and somehow subject that duplicate to exactly the same experiences (again impossible) in order to maintain identicality then both the original and the duplicate would, of necessity, die at exactly the same instant.

You're still snookered.

And your family would have to ante up for a double funeral.

 

[Akhenaten]

Are you reciting Buddhist koans?

- No.

Then why do you keep repeating the same questions over and over?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Our selves are not determined solely by biology. Environmental pressure, in all its complexity, from cradle to grave, influences the psychological make-up of the emergent property of our brains that we call our consciousness.

Continuity of memory is illusion because we can't always tell if we're remembering the actual event, or if we're remembering the last time we remembered that event. We play the broken telephone game with ourselves, and we can't help but lead ourselves down the garden path of inaccuracy.


Can someone please clone Jabba and wait a few decades to see if he agrees with himself?

...the horror...

 

[Slowvehicle]

<respecful snip>
I'll never get the hang of Jabbanese.

Anyway, as near as I can parse what you're trying to say, you're wrong. An exact biological copy of you would not be you living again. It would be a biological copy of you - a clone - living for the first time.

Praps if enough different posters say "this same thing", enough times...?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Hmm . . .

[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Locutus.jpg[/qimg]​

I think I've had one of those epiphany things.

Oh, noes! The captain is borked borged again!

 

[Slowvehicle]

Then why do you keep repeating the same questions over and over?

Dancin' with the one that brought him to the party...?

 

[HighRiser]

...the horror...

My apologies.

I hope this doesn't mean that you're considering becoming a megalomanic and disappearing into a south-east Asian jungle?

 

[Slowvehicle]

My apologies.

I hope this doesn't mean that you're considering becoming a megalomanic and disappearing into a south-east Asian jungle?

Been there (well, it was the equatorial South American jungle), done that (OK, I was 7, and my folks were missionaries--do you have any idea how messed up MK's are?), have the scars (some really interesting ones) and the memories of mumps in 7 sequential sets of glands...

So, no, prolly not gonna do it again.

But thanks for asking...

 

[jond]

Look, a water glass! Now I destroy it with a hammer. What are the odds that that particular water glass would be re-manufactured and "live" again? Zero. What is the likelihood that that particular water glass was manufactured in the first place? One. The manufacturer made 1000 water glasses that are "duplicates" of my water glass and can make still more. What are the odds there will be undestroyed duplicate water glasses just like the one that I destroyed? High. What are the odds that they are the very one I destroyed? Zero,

Again, each VW is a separate car, even if it is identical to thousands of others. If I crash it, I can get a replacement that seems to be identical. But the car I crashed is gone. Identical does not equal the same. Two things can be identical, but can never ever be the same thing. Same idea for "sense of selves." You want to claim a magical different "self" in the original and in the copy of a person, while we are saying that we would have two separate, but identical selves in the original and the copy. Maybe this helps: we are claiming separate, but identical selves (senses of self) and I don't think that is how you are using the term different.

You're not being ignored by anyone other than Jabba. And: thanks for stating exactly what I was going to!

 

[Giordano]

Do you have any idea how annoying it is that you repeatedly ask people if what they just said is what they just said?

Are we certain it is Jabba, rather than one of his exact duplicates that is repeating the question? Which raises the question: I understand it is currently not allowed for two people to use the same account here. But what if they were exact duplicates of one another? Can duplicates use the same account?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Are we certain it is Jabba, rather than one of his exact duplicates that is repeating the question? Which raises the question: I understand it is currently not allowed for two people to use the same account here. But what if they were exact duplicates of one another? Can duplicates use the same account?

Genius! You have invented the auto-söckleganger!

 

[John Jones]

Jabba!

Look here: You have no evidence of immortality. Problem solved.

K?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Jabba!

Look here: You have no evidence of immortality. Problem solved.

K?

[tumbleweeds...]

 

[John Jones]

[crickets chirping]

 

[Slowvehicle]

[dripping faucet...]

 

[John Jones]

1->6859

No proof of immortality - essential, legal, statistical, logical, or evidential.

No audience of lurking supporters.

No converts.

No nothing.

QED