Mancow got waterboarded

Upchurch said:
$1000 per second. Hang out for an hour, that's $3.6 million. For the troops.

Since waterboarding obviously isn't torture, what does Hannity stand to lose?
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KSM handled it 6 times a day. Hannity doesn't love our troops enough to be more manly than KSM. What a pussy.
 
Darth Rotor said:
What logic?

It is physically a very different interaction between body and water. Likewise, the whole "strapped to the board" bit is different.

I don't see where your logic comes from, in terms of trying to take two different things and assert them as the same. They even have different names.

This is dangerously close to "raising your child in the Church is child
abuse" or "anything that is discriminatory is apartheid in another form."

I wonder why you tried to equate the two.

DR
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I'm not sure who you are arguing with. The logic I refer to is that of every right winger claiming waterboarding isn't torture. It looks like/sounds like one could just hold one's breath. Who are you arguing with that waterboarding is torture? Because I'm certainly saying it is.
 
soylent said:
That was freaking sad. He couldn't have run out of air in 4-5 seconds, he just got some water up his nose.
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Drowning, whether real or simulated, is not as simple as holding your breath and waiting for the air to run out. That disregards the mental awareness of helplessness, along with the instinct to breathe regularly.

I've been swimming since I was 2. I was on 2 swim teams, I taught both kids and adults how to swim, and I held a job as a lifeguard. I could swim one and a half lengths of the pool underwater without coming up for air.

I haven't been in a pool in a year, and in that time my arms and legs have weakened from the disease to the point that I was no longer sure how well I could swim. This past weekend I found out, when I attended my nephew's birthday party at the pool.

I took the precaution of bringing a floatation device with me into the water. I walked deeper and deeper until I couldn't touch bottom. Tried kicking; too weak. Tried stroking; too weak. Oh well, no more swimming for me.

That's when the floatation device slipped out of my grasp. I went straight down.

My very first thought was "It would be so embarrassing for someone with my experience to drown in 6 feet of water". That thought lasted for about half a second, and was instantly followed by complete and utter panic. The same panic that lifeguard training tells me a victim feels, that I knew I would never experience. I flailed, I swallowed water, and by pure chance my hand hit the lane rope and grabbed on.

Mind you, I was not restrained, no one intended me malice, I was in a very safe place...and yet the panic was complete, total, and almost immediate. It's instinctual and without lots of training, unavoidable.

Drowning is nothing like just getting water up your nose.
 
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NobbyNobbs said:
Drowning, whether real or simulated, is not as simple as holding your breath and waiting for the air to run out. That disregards the mental awareness of helplessness, along with the instinct to breathe regularly.

I've been swimming since I was 2. I was on 2 swim teams, I taught both kids and adults how to swim, and I held a job as a lifeguard. I could swim one and a half lengths of the pool underwater without coming up for air.

I haven't been in a pool in a year, and in that time my arms and legs have weakened from the disease to the point that I was no longer sure how well I could swim. This past weekend I found out, when I attended my nephew's birthday party at the pool.

I took the precaution of bringing a floatation device with me into the water. I walked deeper and deeper until I couldn't touch bottom. Tried kicking; too weak. Tried stroking; too weak. Oh well, no more swimming for me.

That's when the floatation device slipped out of my grasp. I went straight down.

My very first thought was "It would be so embarrassing for someone with my experience to drown in 6 feet of water". That thought lasted for about half a second, and was instantly followed by complete and utter panic. The same panic that lifeguard training tells me a victim feels, that I knew I would never experience. I flailed, I swallowed water, and by pure chance my hand hit the lane rope and grabbed on.

Mind you, I was not restrained, no one intended me malice, I was in a very safe place...and yet the panic was complete, total, and almost immediate. It's instinctual and without lots of training, unavoidable.

Drowning is nothing like just getting water up your nose.
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In case you go back in the water, inflated lungs will keep people afloat if they don't have any counter weights on. Take a deep breath as you start to sink. Stay calm. Wait for your inflated lungs to bring you back to the surface. You can breathe short fast breaths and keep your lungs inflated while still breathing.
 
Now for a dose of reality, folks.

Waterboarding three proven terrorists (one of whom masterminded 9/11 which killed thousands) prevented additional terrorist attacks according to the CIA. Now maybe the CIA is lying or maybe they are telling the truth. Only Obama can clear that up. But for some reason Obama isn't doing that. He's letting this issue just fester. Because it serves the POLITICAL agenda of he and his supporters? ;)
 
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BeAChooser said:
Now for a dose of reality, folks.

Waterboarding three proven terrorists (one of whom masterminded 9/11 which killed thousands) prevented additional terrorist attacks according to the CIA. Now maybe the CIA is lying or maybe they are telling the truth. Only Obama can clear that up. But for some reason Obama isn't doing that. He's letting this issue just fester. Because it serves the POLITICAL agenda of he and his supporters? ;)
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If you're going to run the old "West Coast 9/11" nonsense by us as "evidence," save it. That crap was discredited almost the moment it came out. Try again or post a link that isn't the LA "plots."
 
All I know is that my husband's homemade cookies could have prevented 9/11.

“The most successful interrogation of an al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or ‘walling’ and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.”

Former interrogator/member of the FBI Ali Soufan, who testified to Congress last month, tells TIME: “He was a diabetic ... We had showed him respect, and we had done this nice thing for him .... So he started talking to us instead of giving us lectures.” Ghosh points out, “Defenders of the Bush program, most notably Cheney, say the use of waterboarding produced actionable intelligence that helped the U.S. disrupt terrorist plots. But the experiences of officials like Soufan suggest that the utility of torture is limited at best and counterproductive at worst.”
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BeAChooser said:
Now for a dose of reality, folks.

Waterboarding three proven terrorists (one of whom masterminded 9/11 which killed thousands) prevented additional terrorist attacks according to the CIA. Now maybe the CIA is lying or maybe they are telling the truth. Only Obama can clear that up. But for some reason Obama isn't doing that. He's letting this issue just fester. Because it serves the POLITICAL agenda of he and his supporters? ;)
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broken_record.jpg
 
dingogirl said:
All I know is that my husband's homemade cookies could have prevented 9/11.
“The most successful interrogation of an al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or ‘walling’ and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.”
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Well, first let me say, I'm in full agreement with those who say that torture is bad because a) it doesn't work and b) we ought to be better than that anyway.

However, I can't help but wonder if the success above was due to a good-cop bad-cop reaction. In other words, the man being questioned knew there was the potential for torture (the bad cop) and the contrast in treatment was what softened him up.

If so, it's an elegant solution: using torture to extract information without needing to actually torture anyone. But of course the problem is that the bluff can't work forever, unless enough people are actually tortured to prove it isn't a bluff.
 
skeptigirl said:
In case you go back in the water, inflated lungs will keep people afloat if they don't have any counter weights on. Take a deep breath as you start to sink. Stay calm. Wait for your inflated lungs to bring you back to the surface. You can breathe short fast breaths and keep your lungs inflated while still breathing.
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Yeah, my wife can do that.

Doesn't work for me.
 
TragicMonkey said:
It might need to be said that undergoing something unpleasant voluntarily is a lot different from undergoing the exact same thing involuntarily. It means the pain is purely physical, because you know it's going to stop--you retain control of the situation.

Torture isn't just physical, it's mental, too. Pain and fear together.
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Which would make the rapid collapse of non-trained parties even more evidential that it's torture.

Then knew they were in no real danger, unlike McCaine (in the hands of people who would just as soon let him die and put his corpse in the streets) or a terrorist capturee, who may very well not believe the US would not actually kill him, assuming they weren't putting on a play that he wasn't actually in the hands of the US, as they had done many a time.
 
skeptigirl said:
That's weird. Are you missing a lung or part of one? I'm pretty sure the human body floats unless the lungs fill with water.

Maybe I'm wrong?
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Certain human tissues are more buoyant than others. For instance: Bone/Muscle (less buoyant) vs Adipose. Thus, differences between individuals.
 
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