Loose Change - Part III

[kookbreaker]

OK, I looked, and what did I find under the rules for Skeptics in the SKeptics forum?

PS: DO NOT POST LOOSE CHANGE DEBUNKS ON THIS BOARD, TAKE THIS AS A WARNING!

Narf. Its OK to be skeptical, just don't do anything about it, and stop posting to my Panic Room! Wah!

 

[bob_kark]

26 Subforums!!! What the heck do they cover, I refuse to look, and will make my own fun:

Pentagon Grass Discuss the grass in front of the Pentagon here

Flight 93 Assembly rivets Discuss the rivets used to build Flight 93 here.

Poodles (experimental) Discuss the contraversial theory that Poodles, not Bush arranged for 9-11. SKEPTICS OF POODLES NOT ALLOWED.

Live to Fight Another Day (or not) Discuss the debates you've fled from.

Pointless Profanity Our main forum.

Godwin's Revenge Discuss whether Hitler was evil enough to be compared to Bush.

Jews How can we stop them?

 

[Shrinker]

OK, I looked, and what did I find under the rules for Skeptics in the SKeptics forum?



Narf. Its OK to be skeptical, just don't do anything about it, and stop posting to my Panic Room! Wah!

What a clown. If you want to criticise loose change then maybe you need to say it in his loose change subforum. That one doesn't seem to have any rules. If that fails then it looks like you first need to claim its disinfo and then post your comments in the disinfo forum.

 

[dubfan]

Live to Fight Another Day (or not) Discuss the debates you've fled from.

Pointless Profanity Our main forum.

Godwin's Revenge Discuss whether Hitler was evil enough to be compared to Bush.

Jews How can we stop them?

Emoticons Discuss what smileys we should have.

 

[Brainster]

April Gallop Speaks (On Screw Loose Change) and Dylan Responds

I don't know when she left the comments on our blog, but I've pulled them out to the front page. April was the woman mentioned in Loose Change (based on a book by Jim Marrs) as not believing that a plane hit the Pentagon. I think it's fair to say that April's not pleased with Marrs or our blog. My reading of her comments is that she's somewhere in the middle--not entirely sure a plane hit the Pentagon, and did not see airplane parts--but also angry at Jim Marrs for distorting her comment. I'd say more than anything else she's upset (and legitimately so) that she wasn't safe in what was supposed to be the most secure building in the world.

Dylan responds to her comment, basically offering to interview her.

Not my proudest moment blogging, certainly, but I'm not going to ignore firsthand information regardless of whether it helps my argument or not.

 

[60hzxtl]

Hey gang, hope I didn't miss a post that already announced this: DJRunaway has opened his own forum...

http://www.operation911freedom.co.nr/

Currently boasting 26 subforums, and 24 users. Why do they need another forum? Is it because the more thinly spread the information is, the more potent it becomes?

I'm the KING of MY forum!

Mine mine mine!

 

[Harlequin]

Wow, I can't wait to join and be part of the LegacyCru

 

[Polaris]

I'm the KING of MY forum!

Mine mine mine!

I'm reminded of the two inch-tall Daffy Duck in the end of the Genie in the Lamp episode of Looney Tunes.

"Oh brudder, close sesame."

 

[WildCat]

Wow. That response is nearly impenetrable to me. If I understand him, he's basically acknowledging one of my points (while ignoring the other, btw), but somehow the fact that the building mass fell thru more than 1 storey somehow *decreases* the potential energy available?

Yeah, me too. So many words, so little said. About all I can do is recomment he submit it to a proper engineering journal, and we all know that's not going to happen.

 

[Hellbound]

A couple of notes.

The advantage of pre-shaped charges is that you get a glass liner which becomes a penetrator that is right for the amount of explosive you are using. If you make your own, you either have no penetrator or have to make do with what you have. Glass wine bottles are supposed to be good for that since the bottom of the bottle often has the cone shape for the inside of the charge.

If you want to use a shaped charge on steel, standard shaped charges are not the way to go. You want an armor penetrating type of charge that is normally lined with copper instead of glass. But those are normally attached to missiles or tank shells.

Hunstman, you already did the harder math for the breaching charge. Steel cutting math is a bit easier if somebody provides the cross section of the steel to be cut. P = 3/8*A is easier to work out than (R^3)*K*C.

However, the commercial blasting companies use liner shaped charges, so the stuff we have in our 5-34 manuals does not really apply to a real controlled demo. But you would still get numbers that are closer to reality than what the CT’rs BS ideas.

Yeah, I did some of the steel calculations in the discussion with Christophera. However, I believe I can access sources to determine how much would be needed for the linear shaped charges with copper penetrators. Not sure, but there's a few people I know that might have the information about how it's figured.

The reason for using the equatiosn for general charges was the argument about explosives "pulverizing the concrete", a situation that shaped charges would not be ideal for.

 

[JamesB]

Yep, oddly enough on the famous "stolen" election of 2004.

In a lot of ways, I feel like I'm paying the price now for my youthful belief in conspiracies. I was born in 1955, so the defining event for me was the Kennedy assassination, and I believed in the conspiracy. Not so much that it became an obsession, but I could rattle off the problems with the magic bullet and connect the dots ("Gerald Ford was on the Warren Commission, and now he's being effectively appointed to the presidency!"), all that sort of nonsense. To give myself a little credit, I did follow the Jim Garrison case and realized pretty quickly that he was a complete bozo.

Like Jim Fetzer, watching JFK changed me completely, but in the opposite way. I was flabbergasted watching Stone try to make a martyr out of nutbar Garrison and walked out of the theatre about halfway through. After that I noticed that no "factoid" was ever refuted permanently; the CTers would retire it for a couple years and then resurrect it a few years later when the evidence defeating it was largely forgotten.

I can buy that a heck of a lot of CTers started out as 2000 Sore Loserman types, although obviously that doesn't explain Morgan Reynolds or (apparently) Stephen Jones. As I've said many times, most CTers start with the conclusion (Bush/Cheney was responsible for 9-11) and work backwards from there. Obviously those who opposed Bush in 2000 would be prone to reaching the conclusion quickest.

There are paranoid types on both sides, on the far wings who start the ball rolling on the theories against the other side, and that at some point the "evidence" they've gathered becomes compelling enough that some of the paranoid types on the other side hop on board (although disputes develop as to who was "really responsible"). Remember, CT evidence is similar on both sides; it relies on quote mining, focusing on the eyewitnesses whose account disputes the OT, and "connecting the dots". I would imagine that just as there are "conservatives" among the "Truthers" there were probably some "liberals" muttering about Vincent Foster.

Actually my part was mostly on the 2000 election. Krugman mentioned both in his column. I concentrated mostly on the fact that contrary to Krugman's assertions his own newspaper reported that Gore only "might" have won under certain recount scenarios that Gore never even called for in the first place. Selective memory that would make a conspiracy theorist proud.

 

[JamesB]

OK, getting us back on topic after my little self-promoting asise, the Loosers have now posted their LA preview of their "final cut" It is mostly news cliips and interviews. Thankfully that means you don't have to listen to Dylan drone on endlessly. It even includes interviews with both Fetzer and Alex Jones, who appears to be on crystal meth the entire time.

http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/07/back-to-city.html

 

[Harlequin]

http://s3.phpbbforfree.com/forums/911freedom-about81.html
Unfortunately, DJLegacy2k5 says he has fixed the "Registration Glitch" that somehow allowed non-registered people to still create new threads.

I guess having someone start a thread called "Anyone banned yet?" in the Welcome to the Forum section was a little more than he could take...

[Edited to add link to crappy forum]

 

[Shrinker]

OK, getting us back on topic after my little self-promoting asise, the Loosers have now posted their LA preview of their "final cut" It is mostly news cliips and interviews. Thankfully that means you don't have to listen to Dylan drone on endlessly. It even includes interviews with both Fetzer and Alex Jones, who appears to be on crystal meth the entire time.

http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/07/back-to-city.html

Wow, this is DULL. I'm 12 minutes in. So far we've had a woman who most probably found two slow clocks and a guy with a slow wristwatch and therefore concluded that a bomb blew up the pentagon 5 minutes before the (no)plane arrived.

Shrinker's Viewers Guide: Skip the first 12 minutes.

This is shaping up to be the Phantom Menace of the Truth Movement.

 

[XXX]

It even includes interviews with both Fetzer and Alex Jones, who appears to be on crystal meth the entire time.

You know what popped into my mind as I read that...

Tonight on E True Hollywood Stories....Alex Jones!

Alex Jones, reflecting on his past : "Yea, I was basically on crystal meth everyday at that point. I was ranting and raving at everything."

Don't miss it!

 

[MarkyX]

HE IS STILL SAYING THE HIJACKERS ARE ALIVE?

Wow...just wow. How old is that clip anyways? We don't know of course, I wonder why.

EDIT: Is it possible if I can get the original

 

[JamesB]

Yeah it starts slow. The most interesting are Fetzer and Jones. The stupidest thing that stands out thus far is where Fetzer says the fires could not have gone about 500 degrees. Then he claims that the office fires in the WTC previously exceede 2000 degrees without the towers collapsing. Maybe he is confusing celsius and fahrenheit, but even so, why exactly does he think the fires would be that much cooler. Does jet fuel somehow act as a cooling agent for fires?

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

I predict there will be no transcript posted for LCIII and the usage agreement will be altered to try and prevent a LCIII viewers guide. No I dont think he realizes that he cannot copyright news footage.

 

[Shrinker]

I predict there will be no transcript posted for LCIII and the usage agreement will be altered to try and prevent a LCIII viewers guide. No I dont think he realizes that he cannot copyright news footage.

Well I'm halfway in, and I'll predict a very short Viewers' Guide this time around. So far we've had three 'experts', who back their claims up with nothing but their qualifications. It's so weak I can actually watch it without getting even slightly irritated.

Can you image watching this in a cinema? After 30 minutes there have been about a dozen cuts (not including cuts in the stock footage). It's sending my eyes to sleep.

Edit: Ah, it's just a 1 hour trailer for the real thing. Exceptionally dull. Well done, Dylan. Looking forward to the release.

 

[Gravy]

Well, I didn't make it to Ground Zero today. Wound up helping a friend move who was shorthanded. I'll be out there next week.

I know JamesB is working on a Fetzer/Judy Wood interview transcript. Does anyone know if a Fetzer/Colmes transcript is in the works? If not, i'll do it this weekend (I still haven't llstened to it.)