Loose Change - Part III

[defaultdotxbe]

That is a quality joystick, he certainly knows his gaming paraphenalia.

thats nothing, i used an MS SideWinder Force Feedback 2 for my FS2004 tests (crashing a Boeing 777 into the Sears Tower in Chicago)

the results: it turns out crashing a plane is about as easy as falling off a log


BTW, James, i posted those flight sim evidence pics, and one of a box cutter on the blog comments

nvm, it was Pat that made the post about the evidence

you know, i just realized, this thread has more posts than my entire forum...thats sad

 

[MikeW]

Each time a phone call is mentioned it is stated as either an "Air Phone" "Air-telephone" or as a call from a "phone in row X". so it seems to me that almost all the calls were made from airfones.

In the trial they said all but two were from airfones, although you have to be a little careful with that: they're saying all but two of the specific calls they were talking about. They also say there may have been more cellphone calls. Overall you're quite right, though, the vast majority of the calls were from airfones.

 

[gumboot]

In the trial they said all but two were from airfones,

Has anyone noticed that the CTers (I'm thinking Fetzner specifically here...(think it was him?)) claim there's no way terrorists could take over a plane with knives because Americans wouldn't do what they say.

Yet they dismiss the airphone calls because they claim there's no way the terrorists would allow the passengers to use them.



-Andrew

 

[Shrinker]

Yep. Fetzer's been telling that lie for about a month now--the first I heard it was the Colmes interview. In fact, the only words we know came from outside the cabin are "In the cockpit. If we don't, we'll die!" (And can't you just imagine Dylan Avery mocking those words in LCFC?).

I think I read in the UA93 CVR transcript that one of the passengers could be heard shouting 'roll it!'. It's easy to miss because you might assume it was the hijackers saying that. If it was the passengers then the most obvious 'it' in that scenario might be a drinks cart. From that you could say 'the passengers were overheard discussing using a drinks cart to ram the cockpit door'.

 

[T.A.M.]

"Roll it" is spoken at 10:00:42.

For him to say that "Roll it" means they were discussing ramming the drink cart into the cabin door, is the equivalent to me saying...

"Throw it", and someone interpreting it as the passengers getting ready to throw cans of drink at the cabin door.

You cannot put words into someone esles mouth, as Fetzer does, and then use to catagorically prove some thing is fake with it.

 

[T.A.M.]

and because it is not in Bold, it could have been the one of the hijackers telling the pilot hijakcer to roll the plane to upset the crowd beating at the cabin door etc...there is no distinction from transcript on who speaks when it is not bold.

I believe they mention that the pilot did just that.

 

[Shrinker]

"Roll it" is spoken at 10:00:42.

For him to say that "Roll it" means they were discussing ramming the drink cart into the cabin door, is the equivalent to me saying...

"Throw it", and someone interpreting it as the passengers getting ready to throw cans of drink at the cabin door.

You cannot put words into someone esles mouth, as Fetzer does, and then use to catagorically prove some thing is fake with it.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying that Fetzer may be unaware of the 'roll it' quote, or doesn't realise that it is the sole source for the speculation about the drinks cart plan.

Fetzer prefers us to think that the official story involves a whispered plot at the back of the plane, which couldn't possibly have been recorded. He's built a strawman that he can easily cut down.

 

[gumboot]

"Roll it" is spoken at 10:00:42.

For him to say that "Roll it" means they were discussing ramming the drink cart into the cabin door, is the equivalent to...

Someone saying "Pull it" and them interpreting it as "Blow up the building?"

-Andrew

 

[Shrinker]

Someone saying "Pull it" and them interpreting it as "Blow up the building?"

-Andrew

Obviously I'm still not being clear.

The existence of the drinks cart plan is irrelevant. It supports neither side.

I, and Fetzer have seen reports that the CVR transcripts suggest passengers planned using a drinks cart.

Fetzer claims, no such discussion could ever have been recorded on the CVR, therefore somebody made the whole thing up.

I'm claiming, the 'discussion' was recorded, but it was just these two easily missed, ambigious words. Anybody looking for anomalies would be disinclined to make the connection between 'roll it' and the cart story, precisely because, as you say, it's quite tenuous.

 

[chipmunk stew]

This guy gets a prize in my book.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=9287

but let's not pick on Dylan's adoring followers!

ah and a few miutes later he posts again to be EDITED by Chuck Sheen!

"This post has been edited by chucksheen on Aug 1 2006, 03:00 AM "

For posterity...

 

[realitybites]

This guy gets a prize in my book.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=9287

but let's not pick on Dylan's adoring followers!

ah and a few miutes later he posts again to be EDITED by Chuck Sheen!

"This post has been edited by chucksheen on Aug 1 2006, 03:00 AM "

I love Chuck's edit. "Get the hell out and don't come back till you tow the woo line and post things that make us feel good about ourselves."

Edit - In other news, it appears my ban over there is IP related 'cause I can infiltrate at work. Just not at home.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I love Chuck's edit. "Get the hell out and don't come back till you tow the woo line and post things that make us feel good about ourselves."

Edit - In other news, it appears my ban over there is IP related 'cause I can infiltrate at work. Just not at home.

Yeah, I confirmed my work IP ban last night when I got home. I wonder if this was partially preemptive. With the trial info getting released they knew they were going to get slammed with facts that toasted their fantasies they call theories.

 

[MarkyX]

When I get done with my feedback, my video will also be another slam to their face. Hopefully this happens today.

 

[aggle-rithm]

(the jooose did it),

OJ Simpson?

 

[realitybites]

Yeah, I confirmed my work IP ban last night when I got home. I wonder if this was partially preemptive. With the trial info getting released they knew they were going to get slammed with facts that toasted their fantasies they call theories.

I wonder how long it will take for them to tie up the loose ends and figure out people can post from multiple IPs.

PS - Thanks for the FireFox stuff.

 

[gumboot]

Obviously I'm still not being clear.

No you were being clear. I just couldn't resist.

Making bold conclusions (either for or against) based on tenuous connections seems to be a CTer strongpoint...

-Andrew

 

[gumboot]

OJ Simpson?

No, not O jaaaaay. It's O jooooo.

jaaaaay...

Listen... Ooooo.

jaaaaoooooo...

Oooo. From the back of the throat.

Oooooo.

-Andrew

 

[Brainster]

I think I read in the UA93 CVR transcript that one of the passengers could be heard shouting 'roll it!'. It's easy to miss because you might assume it was the hijackers saying that. If it was the passengers then the most obvious 'it' in that scenario might be a drinks cart. From that you could say 'the passengers were overheard discussing using a drinks cart to ram the cockpit door'.

I had always assumed that meant roll the plane--that it was a suggestion from one of the hijackers to Ziad Jarrah.

 

[Shrinker]

I had always assumed that meant roll the plane--that it was a suggestion from one of the hijackers to Ziad Jarrah.

CVR: Roll it!

Investigator #1: Was that a passenger or a hijacker?

Investigator #2: I'll put it down as a passenger.

Investigator #1: What did he mean by 'roll it'?

Investigator #2: I dunno, roll the drinks cart...? To ram the door...?

Journalist: Investigators studying the CVR today speculated the passengers planned to batter down the cockpit door with a drinks cart.

Conspiracy Kook: This news article says the CVR picked up a conversation between the passengers where they discussed using a drinks cart as a battering ram. Why has this evidence not been released? I know, because it's fake! CVR's can't pick up passenger conversations!

Debunker: This bit here where they say 'roll it'. That's the 'discussion'. It all stems from that.

Conpiracy kook: 'Roll it', means 'batter the door down with a drinks cart'? crylol.gif!! Prove it! You can't! Your debunk is pathetic!! Inside job!! Smoking gun!! Universalseed.org!!!

 

[60hzxtl]

Hey!

JOHNDOEX is now an administrator!

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7660&st=840&

I hope this doesn't interfere with his flying ability.