Loose Change - Part II

[Gravy]

Sagged was more like it, meaning blow torch conditions, Genius.
Tell me, what sagged first the Steel or the firefighter turnout gear?
And for the bonus point, what is the hight temp limit for turn out gear?
Also, if there was 10K of fuel burning how was it the first units on scene "Saw" numerous 10-45s and two small pokets of fire only needing 2 lines?
Cause you're so smart and so is Hutch, "Sentinal" HUTCH?
Sentinel

Sentinel, you're a fireman and you don't know that heat rises? Where should the fire have gone after it exhausted the available fuel on the impact floors, down? No, it went up. Chief Palmer made it to the 78th floor of the south tower – a hell of an effort. He radioed in about 13 minutes before the tower fell. Most of the fire was on the 80th floor and up.

 

[Johnny Pixels]

Something else I might stick in, there were tests carried out on the flammability of droplets of aircraft fuel. I think it may have even been using something like the remote control plane that fetures in Loose Change. It was found that there was a minimum size for droplets before they ignited, basically, big droplets don't burn. This was used to improve fuel tank design so that when a plane hits the runway and the fuel tank is torn ruptured, they are designed so that the fuel disperses in large droplets that don't cause fireballs,I think using foam inserts in the fuel tanks.

This may have made a difference with the WTC fireball and subsequent fire, maybe not.

This is all a bit sketchy, but it's from memory from a Discovery chanel program I saw a while ago. I'll see if I can find some evidence.

 

[rikzilla]

Sagged was more like it, meaning blow torch conditions, Genius.

Or as I prefer; [Britishaccent]"Quite hot actually"[/Britishaccent]

Tell me, what sagged first the Steel or the firefighter turnout gear?

non-sequitur

And for the bonus point, what is the hight temp limit for turn out gear?

2,369.5 angels may dance on the head of a ladies hat pin at any time...no more than that though!!

Also, if there was 10K of fuel burning how was it the first units on scene "Saw" numerous 10-45s and two small pokets of fire only needing 2 lines?

Since we have film of both initial impacts with resultant fireballs, mass destruction, and much burning/smoke/sagging steel etc...what is your point? That the fire wasn't perfectly symetrical in it's distribution? What is your expertise to judge what a airliner into skyscraper fire is supposed to look like?

Cause you're so smart and so is Hutch, "Sentinal" HUTCH?

When all else fails...bring out the pedant.

-z

BTW: What's a "poket" of fire anyway?





Sentinel[/QUOTE]

 

[rwguinn]

Just to second Gravy, we used tnakers in the military on Hemmitt trucks. The fuelers have a tank close to the size of an 18-wheeler tanker, and they're 10,000 gallon tanks.

I could see maybe 15,000 for an 18 wheeler, if that.

Also, does Sentinal understand that there is a difference between burning and explosion? A tanker truck that cracks open (from wreck or turn-over or whatever) and ignites is not under pressure, and is not sprayed out everywhere due to impact force. It will typically burn, rather than explode, and the fireball isn't nearly as large.

The jet fuel from the plane was free of containers (as the fuel tanks would have disintigrated on impact at that speed) and sprayed across and over everything. It was at least partially aerosoled, plus spread over a wider area. Heck, you can test this at home (but only do so at your own risk):

Take 2 gallons of gasoline. Put one gallon in a metal bucket. Spread the other gallon out over the ground/driveway/whatever. Ignite each, and time how long it takes them to burn away. I'll garauntee you the spread out fuel will burn off much quicker.

Limit load on US highways for an 18 wheeler is 80,000 lb, most states in the US.
at 6.2 lb/gallon, that is a legal maximum of 12903 gallons if the truck weighs nothing! Kerosene ("Jet Fuel") is about 6.5 lb/gallon, slightly higher than gasoline.
The energy density of Kerosene is 8% greater than that of gasoline--135k BTU/gallon, as opposed to gasoline's 125K BTU/gallon.
Guess which burns hotter under the same conditions?

 

[Gravy]

Something else I might stick in, there were tests carried out on the flammability of droplets of aircraft fuel. I think it may have even been using something like the remote control plane that fetures in Loose Change. It was found that there was a minimum size for droplets before they ignited, basically, big droplets don't burn. This was used to improve fuel tank design so that when a plane hits the runway and the fuel tank is torn ruptured, they are designed so that the fuel disperses in large droplets that don't cause fireballs,I think using foam inserts in the fuel tanks.

This may have made a difference with the WTC fireball and subsequent fire, maybe not.

This is all a bit sketchy, but it's from memory from a Discovery chanel program I saw a while ago. I'll see if I can find some evidence.

Yes, that was exactly the purpose of the remote-control 720 crash test in 1984. They were working on kerosene additives that would make the fuel aerosolize less easily, and on new fuel tank designs.

 

[Hellbound]

Limit load on US highways for an 18 wheeler is 80,000 lb, most states in the US.
at 6.2 lb/gallon, that is a legal maximum of 12903 gallons if the truck weighs nothing! Kerosene ("Jet Fuel") is about 6.5 lb/gallon, slightly higher than gasoline.
The energy density of Kerosene is 8% greater than that of gasoline--135k BTU/gallon, as opposed to gasoline's 125K BTU/gallon.
Guess which burns hotter under the same conditions?

Thanks for that, I was just guestimating based on remembered size, and adding a max limit

 

[Apollyon]

Sagged was more like it, meaning blow torch conditions, Genius.

Well you didn't say "sagged," you said "melted." Are we supposed to divine what you meant instead of what you wrote?

It's been brought up numerous times already that you have serious issues with properly expressing your intent. So don't get bent when someone doesn't correctly read your mind. Not all us geniuses in here have that particular capability.

Tell me, what sagged first the Steel or the firefighter turnout gear?


And for the bonus point, what is the hight temp limit for turn out gear?


Also, if there was 10K of fuel burning how was it the first units on scene "Saw" numerous 10-45s and two small pokets of fire only needing 2 lines?

Tell me, what prompts you to continuously machine gun meaningless questions in here that are blatant non sequiturs and have so little relevance to the tower collapse?

 

[Pak43]

E-mail to Monica Masson, Michael Meachers parliamentary secretary:

Monica,

Could I ask if Michael intends to arrange a viewing on June 14th in Parliament for the purpose of showing the “Loose Change” video?

This is currently being claimed by members of the “Loose Change” internet forum.

I, along with many others, am extremely sceptical of the content of this video and would suggest it does not prove in any way that a conspiracy existed to bring down the WTC towers.

Perhaps I could direct you to a link
wubbleyoux3dotccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide which contains well-researched, sobre refutation of the video. I would urge Michael to use this document when viewing the video and he will see why many people have doubts about the credibility of it.

Regards

 

[Johnny Pixels]

Yes, that was exactly the purpose of the remote-control 720 crash test in 1984. They were working on kerosene additives that would make the fuel aerosolize less easily, and on new fuel tank designs.

Hey, my memory does work!

Or as I prefer; [Britishaccent]"Quite hot actually"[/Britishaccent]

Never underestimate the power of understatement.

 

[Gravy]

It's from the county known as "◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Moron", it's a smallish county which is constituted from nothing but marshy swampland.

It's inhabitants only know one means of escape, by an almighty leap to the neighboring county of "Conclusions", gracefully clearing the majestically wide "River of Evidence" in a single bound....

Aah. I was thinking West Midlands. Thanks for clearing that up, and welcome to our little debarkel debunking club.


edited to "correct" spelling of debarkel.

 

[tim]

Lets make sure "I" have this right, OK?


You said all forum members are reminded that "I" should refrain from insults?


Maybe you should take a trip on the way back machine to see who actually initiated the insults and bring it up with them instead of showing as usual biased judgement, Sir.


Look it up



sentinel

Read it carefully. All posters. Not you personally. "All posters on this thread are reminded that you are expected to refrain from insulting other posters."
Please read what I say before you leap to admonish me.

 

[money]

Well you didn't say "sagged," you said "melted." Are we supposed to divine what you meant instead of what you wrote?

If by "divine", you mean "whack Sentinel with a forked stick 'til he makes sense", then I'm all for it.

 

[Pak43]

Aah. I was thinking West Midlands. Thanks for clearing that up, and welcome to our little debarkle debunking club.

Many thanks for the welcome!
I've been following this thread for weeks and have read it all, now at least part of the debate seems to have moved to our shores, I feel I ought to do my bit to try and stem this tide of stupidity...

 

[Sentinel]

B.l.e.v.e.d.

is that correct ?





Sentinel

 

[Gravy]

B.l.e.v.e.d. is that correct ?
Sentinel

Yes, if you're referring to one of the many unlisted titles of Dr. Mas.

 

[Gravy]

Many thanks for the welcome!
I've been following this thread for weeks and have read it all, now at least part of the debate seems to have moved to our shores, I feel I ought to do my bit to try and stem this tide of stupidity...

Unfortunately, it's more of a tsunami of tsupidity.

 

[Sentinel]

B.l.e.v.e.d.

Look it up.


I understand GRAVY.
You don't know the meaning of the big word so again you show your insecurity with the issue by resorting to Schtict.


It'll be ok


P.S.


The loose and strange crowd is full of laugh including the new investiagtion on "pandering to children" and "Criminal delinquincy of a minor"



Good show LC



Sentinel

 

[money]

Ahh, gotcha.

BLEVE - Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion

as per http://www.chemaxx.com/explosion18a.htm

As opposed to bleevers, like Kathy.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Look it up.


I understand GRAVY.
You don't know the meaning of the big word so again you show your insecurity with the issue by resorting to Schtict.


It'll be ok


P.S.


The loose and strange crowd is full of laugh including the new investiagtion on "pandering to children" and "Criminal delinquincy of a minor"



Good show LC


Sentinel

urbandictionary.com - no entry
m-w.com - no entry
wikipedia.org - no entry
google.com - bunch of hits for people who can't spell "believed"

Save us some effort and translate please.

 

[Gravy]

Look it up.


I understand GRAVY.
You don't know the meaning of the big word so again you show your insecurity with the issue by resorting to Schtict.


It'll be ok


P.S.


The loose and strange crowd is full of laugh including the new investiagtion on "pandering to children" and "Criminal delinquincy of a minor"



Good show LC



Sentinel

I'm secure enough not to hit the enter key 15 times so folks will notice a post that says nothing. How many times do you have to be told that your posting style is counterproductive? Please try to communicate clearly.