Loose Change - Part II

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True, but he seems to agree w/ the CT. Just read his posts here.

At least he doesn't dance on the victim's graves like the loosers do.

This constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Paul Isaac, Jr., just as this constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Dylan Avery. ;)
 
Ok, you're a Wikpedia-Guy.

What's this dissing on Wikipedia?!
If you have a problem with something from wikipedia, explain why. Don't just dismiss it out of hand because you don't like the source.

Nope. I'm trying to falsify the common hypothesis. If i am successful at that (or nobody proves it), we all should try to find a better one.

But that's what every CT does. What's wrong with making a claim, and then backing it up with evidence?
 
This constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Paul Isaac, Jr., just as this constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Dylan Avery. ;)
Yes, it's all very confusing. If only Paul could manage to write a coherent thought down the mystery would end!
 
If you Google "Paul Isaac Jr" you get some real gems, from interviews with him. Unless the CTers completely made up these quotes:

I know 9-11 was an inside job, the police know it’s an inside job, and the firemen know it too.

New York firemen were very upset by what they considered a cover-up in the WTC destruction. Many other firemen knew there were bombs in the buildings, but they are afraid for their jobs to admit it because the higher-ups forbid discussion of this fact.

There were definitely bombs in those buildings.

Seems like it's pretty obvious which side he's on.
 
Nope. I'm trying to falsify the common hypothesis. If i am successful at that (or nobody proves it), we all should try to find a better one.

You said,
Gravy? I explained what in my opinion is the key evidence for 9/11 beeing an inside job.
I haven't seen whose complicity that evidence supposedly points to. Who do you believe pulled off the inside job?
 
Ok, you're a Wikipedia-Guy. I personally have some kind of problems drawing the border between common crimes and "folklore". Sorry.
??? I don't have any clue what the hell this is supposed to mean. It makes no sense. There is, demonstrably, lots of folklore surrounding many crimes, real, fake, common, uncommon, whatever.

Look, the term "conspiracy theory" has a meaning. You can use it differently if you want but it calls into question your sincerity. It causes people to wonder if you are just simply playing word games. If you want to redefine the term then that is fine. The hijackers certainly formed a conspiracy. If you want to refer to the plan carried out by the hijackers as a "conspiracy theory" then that would be technically correct but you are using it quite differently than the rest of us are.

BTW, calling me a "Wikipedia-Guy" doesn't advance your argument.
 
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If you Google "Paul Isaac Jr" you get some real gems, from interviews with him. Unless the CTers completely made up these quotes:







Seems like it's pretty obvious which side he's on.

Yes, unless the CTers completely made up those quotes. Or, alternately, Dylan could have been lying in the Loose Change Extra Footage video when he introduced the guy Bermas had the argument with. But I have a hard time believing that the man I saw in that video is the same person who made those quotes. It's possible; maybe he found out how much money Dylan's been making off his CDs and thought he could cash in himself. But the alternative--that the CTers lied about him in a petty act of revenge seems a little more likely.
 
Welcome Empress. Looks like we have a newcomer with a new angle.

I'm sorry, I admit I had some difficulty parsing exactly what your theory is, so I'm going back to your list of observations... please correct me if I misinterpret your position.

The key issues? The cover-up is the key issue.
Your theory is that there is a cover-up. Fair enough. Hard to exhaustively disprove, unlike the nonsense about controlled demolition, although I personally don't think there was one. It will help if we have some details about this cover-up, i.e. what was covered up, who covered it, and how.

1. The USA is a constitutional republic. Mass murder is the most serious crime one can commit. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Instead of this the FBI came up on the first day with this list of 19 Highjackers which wasn't changed till then, they showed us a crappy videostill of Atta entering an Airport, his passport and a Koran and a Testament in his alleged car. Where is the chain of evidence for the official CT?
Erm... There was an investigation, but the 19 Hijackers was a pretty simple conclusion. In brief, we know they boarded the planes (passenger lists, video evidence, eyewitnesses in the airports), have corroborating descriptions from phone calls from the hijacked planes, found at least some of their DNA in wreckage, voice recorder evidence, and have video claiming responsibility from their conspirators. Do you have evidence that casts doubt on this conclusion? If so, that would be grounds to reopen the investigation, but I'd like to see it before casting judgment, if you don't mind.

2. The FBI investigated in Florida for a few weeks, then they were ordered back to investigate the "Anthrax letters". They never returned and a lot of people say, the FBI told them not to talk about their experiences. Who was behind the anthrax letters the FBI so diligently investigated?
What makes you think the entire FBI was taken off one case and put on another? Sounds sketchy. Can you support this assertion? Who are these "lot of people" you're talking about, and what do they know that was overlooked?

(I don't know who was behind the anthrax letters either, but it may have been totally unrelated. Let's stick to one investigation at a time, please.)

3. The people I mentioned in 2. were interviewed by Daniel Hopsicker - he has to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US. He found out that Mohammed Attas trail leads directly into the international organized crime scene and that the "Commision Report" can indeed be called an "Omission Report".
You didn't mention any people in 2., just said that there were some. I gravely doubt that Hopsicker "had to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US." That's balmy, sorry. You'll need to show a whole lot of evidence before I believe this trail of breadcrumbs leading to International Organized Crime, and you haven't shown any whatsoever.

4. Evidence was destroyed or is under closure.
What evidence? Prove it.

5. The Legend was tweaked several times and people like the alleged masterminds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh are not on trial or were even allowed to witness in the Moussaoui-trial.
I don't know what "The Legend" refers to. Anyway, this is a non sequitur. I'm not the least bit satisfied with how the Moussaoui trial was handled myself, but I don't see the guest list supporting your allegations of a 9/11 coverup. They didn't let me in to witness the OJ trial, either, for what it's worth.

6. "Coincidently", parts of the "Truth movement" have connections to the very same people that should be under investigation and their net of "woo"-spreading clowns.
I have no idea what you're talking about. It almost seems that you're implying the Loose Changers should be jailed and questioned -- surely that can't be what you mean?

YOU are the people who don't get the bigger picture - not the folks over at the LC Forum.
If so, how about you help us get the picture? Like with some evidence? You've posted several quite fantastic statements above without a shred of support, so I would suggest you back it up. Otherwise, this is quite an arrogant thing to say.
 
Yes, unless the CTers completely made up those quotes. Or, alternately, Dylan could have been lying in the Loose Change Extra Footage video when he introduced the guy Bermas had the argument with. But I have a hard time believing that the man I saw in that video is the same person who made those quotes. It's possible; maybe he found out how much money Dylan's been making off his CDs and thought he could cash in himself. But the alternative--that the CTers lied about him in a petty act of revenge seems a little more likely.
Like I said, he can post here and clarify if he'd like. But I'll be damned if I can understand anything he's posted so far, he seems a bit loopy...
 
I haven't seen whose complicity that evidence supposedly points to. Who do you believe pulled off the inside job?
I don't know, alpha dog.

Childlike Empress said:
The key issues? The cover-up is the key issue.

1. The USA is a constitutional republic. Mass murder is the most serious crime one can commit. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Instead of this the FBI came up on the first day with this list of 19 Highjackers which wasn't changed till then, they showed us a crappy videostill of Atta entering an Airport, his passport and a Koran and a Testament in his alleged car. Where is the chain of evidence for the official CT?

2. The FBI investigated in Florida for a few weeks, then they were ordered back to investigate the "Anthrax letters". They never returned and a lot of people say, the FBI told them not to talk about their experiences. Who was behind the anthrax letters the FBI so diligently investigated?

3. The people I mentioned in 2. were interviewed by Daniel Hopsicker - he has to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US. He found out that Mohammed Attas trail leads directly into the international organized crime scene and that the "Commision Report" can indeed be called an "Omission Report".

4. Evidence was destroyed or is under closure.

5. The Legend was tweaked several times and people like the alleged masterminds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh are not on trial or were even allowed to witness in the Moussaoui-trial.

6. "Coincidently", parts of the "Truth movement" have connections to the very same people that should be under investigation and their net of "woo"-spreading clowns.

YOU are the people who don't get the bigger picture - not the folks over at the LC Forum.

Please answer.

@R. Mackey: No theory here. I want evidence for the Official CT. I WANT TO BELIEVE. More tomorrow. Good night.

edit: only 19 posts. Check the links (and make sure to watch wkjo.com). I admit it's only one click.
 
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wow it just goes on an on.

I liken it to woo, they hear someone say "the government pulled off 9/11" and although confused, lthe person likes or is attracted to the scale of such an implication. From that moment the evidence of the OV is outweighed by the desire for the CT to be real. Reality dismissed, whilst always leaning towards what they wish to be true.

I live in an exciting world, but at least its real. When im wrong and nature and reality does stuff I cant believe I get goosebumps.
 
I don't know, alpha dog.

Please answer.

@R. Mackey: No theory here. I want evidence for the Official CT. I WANT TO BELIEVE. More tomorrow. Good night.
Umm...

I admit I'm not "alpha dog," that strangely adulatory title deservedly goes to Gravy... but I answered you in detail. Not sure why you'd repost your list to him and then ignore my answers in the same post.

So it's your turn.

Take your time.
 
But the alternative--that the CTers lied about him in a petty act of revenge seems a little more likely.

Yes, that had occurred to me, too.
Especially since he's a middle-aged firefighter, with a blog on campusprogress.org . Something seems a bit off there...
 
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