• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Looks like Korey Rowe was... right

Unsecured Coins said:
how bout I show you the damn before and after pics then?
Click to expand...

Please do. But since you started this thread and it has generated a very interesting discussion, let me ask, why are you pissed now? Because it affects you directly?

Is it possible that you have underestimated the gov't's desire to intrude upon the privacy of its military personnel and/or citizenry?

We live in dangerous times with unforeseen enemies, some of the measures that the military and the gov't take may seem intrusive, even unconstitutional, but the rules have changed since 9/11, and everyone must sacrifice to win the "war on terror".
 
RedIbis said:
Please do. But since you started this thread and it has generated a very interesting discussion, let me ask, why are you pissed now? Because it affects you directly?

Is it possible that you have underestimated the gov't's desire to intrude upon the privacy of its military personnel and/or citizenry?

We live in dangerous times with unforeseen enemies, some of the measures that the military and the gov't take may seem intrusive, even unconstitutional, but the rules have changed since 9/11, and everyone must sacrifice to win the "war on terror".
Click to expand...


Why wouldn't I be pissed? Let's start there. 14 years in, 6 years until retirement. Never been in trouble, 3 deployments, numerous decorations, and the last 7 years of my career have been done with one good leg. I'd say I'm pissed because I feel this is simply a waste of resources and is not needed. Why do they need to monitor my stress levels? Do I get that angry when I mow the yard? Is there something about my choice of music that gets me all in a rage? I cannot think of a single reason why I need this chip. While I do have a social life... I do not "hang out" anywhere. I don't become the center of attention. I am completely uncool. Yes, let's tag this guy.
 
RedIbis said:
I don't know what the worry here is. The gov't would never do anything untoward. They have your best interests in mind. If they implant any device in you, you can be sure it has been fully tested and couldn't possibly do you harm or be used for nefarious purposes.

To think otherwise would be unpatriotic. You know better.
Click to expand...

Nearly all of the people I know who are currently in the military in any capacity, including close relatives, are nothing like your insipid caricature. Most of them regularly rag on the stupidity that goes on in government and in their own military ranks.

Hopefully UC is using all of his available legal options to make his objection to this known. Get enough formal objections and the complaint can make it higher up the ladder. There are legal obligations soldiers have when enlisted, so the typical AJ-like fantasy of citizens grabbing guns and pitchforks wouldn't fly in the first place.

That said: if formal complaints aren't effective, UC, I'd love a crack at the chip.
 
GreNME said:
Nearly all of the people I know who are currently in the military in any capacity, including close relatives, are nothing like your insipid caricature. Most of them regularly rag on the stupidity that goes on in government and in their own military ranks.

Hopefully UC is using all of his available legal options to make his objection to this known. Get enough formal objections and the complaint can make it higher up the ladder. There are legal obligations soldiers have when enlisted, so the typical AJ-like fantasy of citizens grabbing guns and pitchforks wouldn't fly in the first place.

That said: if formal complaints aren't effective, UC, I'd love a crack at the chip.
Click to expand...

I work in a town with a big military population. I'm well aware of their cynacism and discontent. Nice try, but I wasn't trying to disparage anyone in the military.

If anything my scorn is directed at the faceless bureaucracy of gov't.
 
Last edited:
UC,

Would you feel any better if they said it was to test RFIDs that contain all your medical and relevant personal information and not to monitor stress levels?

I haven't found any google hits that refer to RFIDs recording stress levels though there are some hits related to the dog tag replacement idea. I am mystified (and maybe a bit surprised if it turns out to be true) that the Army would go to this kind of trouble just to record stress levels?
 
fezzic said:
UC,

Would you feel any better if they said it was to test RFIDs that contain all your medical and relevant personal information and not to monitor stress levels?

I haven't found any google hits that refer to RFIDs recording stress levels though there are some hits related to the dog tag replacement idea. I am mystified (and maybe a bit surprised if it turns out to be true) that the Army would go to this kind of trouble just to record stress levels?
Click to expand...

here's my medical history:
No known drug allergies
rebuilt left knee, ACL reconstruction with bio screw hamstring graft
Struck by lightning in 2001
assorted bumps, bruises, cuts, concussions, and occasional battery acid in the eye

that's about it. Why am I getting this again?
 
Unsecured Coins said:
here's my medical history:
No known drug allergies
rebuilt left knee, ACL reconstruction with bio screw hamstring graft
Struck by lightning in 2001
assorted bumps, bruises, cuts, concussions, and occasional battery acid in the eye

that's about it. Why am I getting this again?
Click to expand...


As someone who's worked in medical research using human subjects, I'd say the most likely reason is random selection.

In the civilian world, medical research, no matter how non-invasive -- even if the study involves no more than taking the subjects' blood pressure after they drink 8 oz. of cola -- is ruled by strictly enforced informed consent laws. Everyone involved must volunteer to participate, with no coercion. Even something like offering to pay volunteers a lot of money is forbidden, because someone who really needs money might agree to do something they don't really want to do.

One problem with that is, you're never sure that the population of volunteers you're getting is really representative of the population you're trying to test. You want to study, for instance, overweight but otherwise healthy post-meopausal women, but what you get to study are overweight but otherwise healthy post-menopausal women who are willing to volunteer to be in a medical study. That may or may not be the same thing.

From the point of view of getting the most reliable results, it would be much better to, say, randomly select from all the overweight etc. women in the country who fit your criteria, and then force those randomly selected people to participate. Out of the question, in the civilian world...

In your case, the population to be studied might simply be "all soldiers being deployed in the next 12 month period," which would mean there's absolutely nothing special about your particular medical or service history (except, most likely, the absence of certain medical conditions that might cause the implant to cause side effects and/or not produce reliable data) that affected your selection.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
If I recall correctly, Kari Byron of Mythbusters got a tag as part of the show.

Maybe you two can hook up? ;)

In all seriousness, I would be rather annoyed at this myself. It makes sense from a military perspective but there is potential for abuse of civil liberties. In your place I'd probably let the Man do it, but get it removed after my service was up. Probably have to pay for it out of pocket. And that would suck.

Thanks for your service. I hope this is the worst indignity you have to suffer as part of it.
 
BenBurch said:
R.Mackey, I doubt very much it will be subject to civilian abuse. NO doubt the thing, being military, has strong crypto.
Click to expand...

That's not really what I meant. However, over a person's lifetime some pretty strong codebreaking, reverse engineering, or simple theft of protocols isn't out of the question.

I have an RFID in my NASA badge, and another in my new passport. People lose these things once in a while, sure, and I am not likely to require emergency medical attention after being blown out of my socks -- I can see advantages to this for the military. Civilian purposes, not so much, nor do I see why less invasive tracking (like badges etc.) wouldn't be sufficient. One might want to track the whereabouts of all citizens for various law enforcement purposes, but this might constitute illegal surveillance, at least in the USA.

The worst likely outcome I can see for this is commercial. I'm reminded of the omnipresent, customized-just-for-you advertising in such movies as Minority Report, which would certainly constitute an invasion of privacy.

However, to wax Cyberpunk for a moment, in the long run one's physical location will become less important than one's access and footprint in information space. RFID may ultimately pale in comparison to "cookies" as far as abuse is concerned.

Regardless, I can see why UC is unhappy about being so ordered.
 
Last edited:
is the implant surgery invasive? or is it more arthroscopic? can they roll that chip up and insert it arthroscopicly?<sp?> if thats the case there may not be much to see before/after
 
UC would it be possible for you to write a computer program that can automatically post a message to these forums in the event of the chip doing something untoward towards you?

I mean, the first thing this chip is likely to detect is that you're not happy about its presence, so it stands to reason that your superiors would be swift to silence you. With so many troops dying in Iraq at the moment it wouldn't be hard to add another to the list.

I'd be quite disappointed if we couldn't get confirmation of your demise, but given your occupation there's every chance of you actually meeting the wrong end of an IED or a training accident or whatever, making it impossible for us to distinguish.

Perhaps one of the computer smart folks here can write a program for you that monitors the chip independently - after all since you're going to have the thing anyway, and since it's liable to lead to your death, you might as well exploit it to let us know the fact.
 
UC, any indication that the chip might be part of a 'time and motion' study of soldiers, you know, to make sure you're not slacking?

I mean, it obviously can detect heightened muscle useage in the implant arm and so should be able to record when the arm is active and when it is inactive. So if you're on the battle field and you're squeezing off a few rounds at the enemy it would be recording this event.

Likewise, when you're sleeping the inactivity would also be recorded so they know you're getting rest.

Of course if you're doing something else at night this will also be recorded and early intervention could help to save your eyesight and prevent hairy palms.

All in all, I'm thinking these RFID chips are a good idea. They should consider ear implants too, so that orders can be sent directly to your brain during battle, and bible passages during the night to drive away impure thoughts.

Further to that, I wonder if they have considered lip implants to control what you say? Oh....you probably have those ones already.
 
Last edited:
uk_dave said:
UC, any indication that the chip might be part of a 'time and motion' study of soldiers, you know, to make sure you're not slacking?

I mean, it obviously can detect heightened muscle useage in the implant arm and so should be able to record when the arm is active and when it is inactive. So if you're on the battle field and you're squeezing off a few rounds at the enemy it would be recording this event.

Likewise, when you're sleeping the inactivity would also be recorded so they know you're getting rest.

Of course if you're doing something else at night this will also be recorded and early intervention could help to save your eyesight and prevent hairy palms.
Click to expand...


This is a good point. I'd like to propose the chip is actually being installed as part of a massive investigation into just how widespread the "combat jack" is, and whether it is harming the fighting capabilities of the US military.

Is everyone combat jacking? Is it something everyone has to do just once, or has it become more frequent than that? Are there repeat combat jackers? Are there, indeed, soldiers addicted to combat jacking? And does this have any bearing on a soldier's willingness to perform multiple tours of a combat zone?

It could have profound implications for the future of the US war machine.
 
I think UC's boss got sick of him playing all that vulgar animalistic ... rock and roll bop music and put his name down for the implant so that after the operation the only tunes he can shred on his axe will be a selection of Rogers and Hammerstein's Broadway show stoppers. But I always think stuff like that, so maybe it's best all round if people ignore me...
 
I wonder if the RFID will interfere at all with the receptors on his electric guitar. Might make for an interesting sound.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom