LIGO gravitational wave announcement

[Ts4EVER]

Kind off offtopic I know, but I find it very telling how on the CNN webpage the news about this is right next to "Rapper: Earth is flat and here is proof." Shows you the state of the media today, that they provide a stage to an imbecile like that.

 

[Elind]

What slyjoe is trying to point out is that the GW detectors are not single points. They each have two perpendicular arms which will be at different orientations with respect to the other detectors. This can provide an additional ability to locate the source.

I'm pretty sure this is how they were able to determine the source of this GW came from a certain patch of the sky, with only two detectors, rather than somewhere in a 360º ring.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have seen no reference to location being determined or even estimated to any significant degree. The time difference between detectors will give some information that excludes areas, but not much more.

Also I do not believe two arms are there for any directional determination, as has been pointed out here by others. The reason for the two arms is to create interference between them and that interference is the actual measurement of the event. The spacial orientation of the arms is irrelevant.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have seen no reference to location being determined or even estimated to any significant degree. The time difference between detectors will give some information that excludes areas, but not much more.

From Gravitational Waves Detected 100 Years After Einstein's Prediction:

By looking at the time of arrival of the signals—the detector in Livingston recorded the event 7 milliseconds before the detector in Hanford—scientists can say that the source was located in the Southern Hemisphere.

Also I do not believe two arms are there for any directional determination, as has been pointed out here by others. The reason for the two arms is to create interference between them and that interference is the actual measurement of the event. The spacial orientation of the arms is irrelevant.

This would be incorrect if my understanding is accurate. The nature of the interference would necessarily provide (limited) information about direction, because a GW coming in from different directions would affect the arms in different ways.

 

[malbec]

Malbec, it is difficult to see which words in your post are quotes, and which originate with you. Could you edit, please, or post again making this more clear. if there are quotes in there, could you link to the original, please.

It is as I indicated , a quotation --- following the word QUOTE .
La Violette might be best approached from his works on Subquantum Kinetics .
A remarkable scientist and worthy successor to Einstein , imho .
Any simple engine search shows him .

 

[Elind]

From Gravitational Waves Detected 100 Years After Einstein's Prediction:

This would be incorrect if my understanding is accurate. The nature of the interference would necessarily provide (limited) information about direction, because a GW coming in from different directions would affect the arms in different ways.

If the structure of the interference can give such information, I don't know. If you have any links to a plain language explanation of the functionality that goes to this level please provide a link.

 

[surreptitious57]

Maartenn 100 : science is primarily an inductive discipline which means it deals in probable truth rather than absolute truth. Nothing
in science can ever be proven. For proof is the remit of axiomatically deductive systems of logic such as mathematics and syllogisms
Instead science deals in evidence which is less rigorous than proof which is why it is an eternally self correcting system. Because the
validity of any testable hypothesis is only as good as the available evidence at any one time. And so nothing is set in stone. So when
any evidence becomes available that modifies or falsifies an existing law or theory then it is accepted instead. Were scientists to wait
until all possible evidence was available then no laws or theories could ever be formulated. But this is not how science actually works

 

[macdoc]

A good example of working from prediction is the creation of the atomic bomb. While theory predicted it should work....until they lit it off ...the billions upon billions of dollars spent to attempty had no sure outcome.....and certainly no sure yield.

The chase of a prediction made 100 years ago has gone on seriously for the last 40 and the technology outlined to confirm the prediction postulated only in 1962 by a Russian.

Only now has the technology opened a window as important perhaps as Galileo grinding a lens.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

A good example of working from prediction is the creation of the atomic bomb. While theory predicted it should work....until they lit it off ...the billions upon billions of dollars spent to attempty had no sure outcome.....and certainly no sure yield.

Worth mentioning that the Hiroshima bomb as a gun design and had never been tested before being dropped.

 

[fuelair]

Are there any practical benefits to understanding the size and age of the universe, other than arguing with young earth creationists?

Note that your answer may say something about your state of mind.

Increasing knowledge is pretty much always a good thing.

 

[fuelair]

Maartenn 100 : science is primarily an inductive discipline which means it deals in probable truth rather than absolute truth. Nothing
in science can ever be proven. For proof is the remit of axiomatically deductive systems of logic such as mathematics and syllogisms
Instead science deals in evidence which is less rigorous than proof which is why it is an eternally self correcting system. Because the
validity of any testable hypothesis is only as good as the available evidence at any one time. And so nothing is set in stone. So when
any evidence becomes available that modifies or falsifies an existing law or theory then it is accepted instead. Were scientists to wait
until all possible evidence was available then no laws or theories could ever be formulated. But this is not how science actually works

This is good!!!! I commend you on it!!

 

[MikeG]

It is as I indicated , a quotation --- following the word QUOTE .

In every version of the editor/ text box thingy on the forum there is an icon which looks like a speech bubble, with lines of text on it. Highlight your quote, and click this icon, and it will appear like this:

That way, we can be certain what is quote and what isn't. You should also link to the location from which you are taking the quote. People will get pretty annoyed if you don't, and telling someone to google it just isn't good enough around here.

La Violette might be best approached from his works on Subquantum Kinetics .
A remarkable scientist and worthy successor to Einstein , imho .
Any simple engine search shows him .

Never heard of him. Perhaps you could link me to some of his published works (you know, peer-reviewed professional journals). Thanks.

A "simple search engine" search reveals La Violette to be a couple of restaurants in France and a retired ice hockey player.

 

[Pixel42]

Never heard of him. Perhaps you could link me to some of his published works (you know, peer-reviewed professional journals). Thanks.

A "simple search engine" search reveals La Violette to be a couple of restaurants in France and a retired ice hockey player.

The original post gave the name Paul LaViolette; when I googled that I got no wiki entry, just a few Amazon links to books and his site, from which google in its wisdom extracted this quote:

Using the Sphinx as one of the keys, Paul LaViolette has discovered a message hidden in the zodiac constellations

 

[Sol88]

So they confirmed a prediction of a mathematician 100yrs ago and detected, using an upgraded Michelson–Morley experiment, of the merging 1.3billion years ago, at JUST the right time, of two singularities, which as we all known is a point where the solutions to the equations become infinite, indicating that the theory has been probed at inappropriate ranges, with the slightest wobble in a laser interferometer???

Wow, MATHS is good

So would the maths be SF*SF=∞ ???

but anyway, good on 'em

send more $$$$ please

at that rate the Universe sounds very much like the oozlum bird theory!

 

[Sol88]

So they confirmed a prediction of a mathematician 100yrs ago and detected, using an upgraded Michelson–Morley experiment, of the merging 1.3billion years ago, at JUST the right time, of two singularities, which as we all known is a point where the solutions to the equations become infinite, indicating that the theory has been probed at inappropriate ranges, with the slightest wobble in a laser interferometer???

Wow, MATHS is good

So would the maths be SF*SF=∞ ???

but anyway, good on 'em

send more $$$$ please

at that rate the Universe sounds very much like the oozlum bird theory!

What kind of black holes merged?

 

[MikeG]

So they confirmed .......the merging......... of two singularities.......

You're just making **** up.

 

[Kid Eager]

So they confirmed a prediction of a mathematician 100yrs ago and detected, using an upgraded Michelson–Morley experiment, of the merging 1.3billion years ago, at JUST the right time, of two singularities, which as we all known is a point where the solutions to the equations become infinite, indicating that the theory has been probed at inappropriate ranges, with the slightest wobble in a laser interferometer???

Wow, MATHS is good

So would the maths be SF*SF=∞ ???

but anyway, good on 'em

send more $$$$ please

at that rate the Universe sounds very much like the oozlum bird theory!

Word salad.

 

[Sol88]

and in case the ripples get to be big and start to put tears in the very fabric of space time, do not fear, the space-time repair kit is here.

Now you can get everything you need to alter the fabric of space-time in a single easy-to-use kit!

 

[query grind]

Are we getting to the point where high end physics is inseparable from medieval scholasticism?
We are discovering subatomic particles that can only be detected if you built gigantic underground tunnels many kilometres in circumference or waves that are only detected if by using gigantic orbiting detectors.
Usually there is only a single piece of equipment that is capable of measuring, you only get access to it if you climb up through the ranks of the priesthood.
My issue is not whether these announcements are true or false, but do they really have any meaning?
In the words of Tom Stoppard: " Is the universe expanding? Is it contracting? Is it standing on one leg and singing 'When Father Painted the Parlour'?"

 

[Pixel42]

Usually there is only a single piece of equipment that is capable of measuring, you only get access to it if you climb up through the ranks of the priesthood.

But everyone has access to the information obtained using it.

My issue is not whether these announcements are true or false, but do they really have any meaning?

To anyone with the necessary intellectual capacity and the willingness to put in the time and effort required to understand the science, yes.

In the words of Tom Stoppard: " Is the universe expanding? Is it contracting? Is it standing on one leg and singing 'When Father Painted the Parlour'?"

I'm a big Stoppard fan but I don't thank you for that earworm. I'll be singing that all day now.

 

[Craig B]

Are we getting to the point where high end physics is inseparable from medieval scholasticism?
We are discovering subatomic particles that can only be detected if you built gigantic underground tunnels many kilometres in circumference or waves that are only detected if by using gigantic orbiting detectors.

Is it then possible, by digging gigantic tunnels, to observe Angels dancing on the point of a needle?